Further, it is absolutely not my place as a statesian communist to tell China how to educate on Marxism. If anything, I try to learn from them and how they teach Marxism so I can more effectively study and help others with theory.
You say that as if the white american leftists do not pride themselves on having read all of the theory, yet still support our capitalistic system even having read all of the theory
The american leftists that continue to allow America to keep being capitalist by not acting and instead just reading the theory without doing much other than feeling better about themselves because they read a book. That is most of the American ‘Communists/Leftists’ I have interacted with
I agree with you. But i aslo feel like when people complain about the state of organizing in the US, it doesn’t get acknowledged how thouroughly the left in the US was routed. Every org was infiltrated and compromised. Its leaders and members were assassinated and imprisoned. I’m not argueing against organizing of course, and there are good orgs today like the two you mentioned. I just think it should be acknowledged why we’re in the state we’re in in the US. It’s not because people read some books, and then decided to just allow capitalism to continue. An entire generation of socialists were basically eradicated here
Indeed, the history of organizing in the belly of the empire is one where we have been murdered, de-fanged, infiltrated, crushed, absorbed, mis-directed, digested, and more. For statesians, myself included, trying to slay the monster from in the belly is both the most effective and most dangerous position to be in. That’s why passivity is so common, simply hoping and praying China will save us all and letting everyone else carry the torch of humanity forward. However, how self-centered can one be? To live idly in the belly of empire, often being bribed by the spoils of imperialism, absolving ourselves of any responsibility? Of any struggle?
It isn’t easy, but it isn’t impossible either, it’s merely difficult. And because it’s merely difficult, we are responsible for carrying out our historic duty, for the sake of the international proletariat and an end to the era of imperialism.
This isn’t directed at you, by the way, I just used your comment more as a springboard to attack leftist inaction.
This isn’t directed at you, by the way, I just used your comment more as a springboard to attack leftist inaction.
Totally understood, and happy to provide a springboard!
simply hoping and praying China will save us all and letting everyone else carry the torch of humanity forward
This is an interesting point. I agree that that we in a the US arent off the hook so to speak, and should organize, etc, exactly as you said. But to springboard off you for mement, i think its important for USian leftists to understand that the US is not the main character of the world. I don’t think that their will be a revolution in the US that leads the world to communism. I think the rest of the world will be leading us.
That doesn’t mean we should be passive, there’s still an important role to be played in the US and imperialist West - and as conditions worsen revolutionary potential increases. Its impossible to predict when something will be able to happen here so being organized is important. I just mean that socialism is an international project, and sometimes, particularly the “Western leftists,” talk like the West will bring about the “true” socialism and lead the revolution.
I’ve been thinking about this for a while, but haven’t put it in words yet so I hope that makes sense lol. And of course this isn’t an arguement for passivity, and I’m not diresring this at you or youre above comment.
It sounds like you’re just justifying not reading theory and projecting onto people that have. I wish the US only continued to exist because the people who’ve read theory were allowing it to. That would be a really easy fix
You should send those books to china and see if they’ll read them.
I support that.
They do, Marxism is a subject you can major in in college.
Further, it is absolutely not my place as a statesian communist to tell China how to educate on Marxism. If anything, I try to learn from them and how they teach Marxism so I can more effectively study and help others with theory.
Edit: and you admit you, yourself haven’t read them!!! Pure Western “leftist” clown shit
You say that as if the white american leftists do not pride themselves on having read all of the theory, yet still support our capitalistic system even having read all of the theory
That’s why you’re here making a fool of yourself, right? Because we all support capitalism and you’re a communist?
They’re the one true leftist
What are you talking about? How are communists supporting the “capitalistic” system?
The american leftists that continue to allow America to keep being capitalist by not acting and instead just reading the theory without doing much other than feeling better about themselves because they read a book. That is most of the American ‘Communists/Leftists’ I have interacted with
This is absolutely a problem. Marxist-Leninists call these people “Western Marxists,” and have written extensively about it. 2 good sources are Western Marxism Loves Purity and Martyrdom, But Not Real Revolution by Jones Manoel, and Western Marxism: How it was Born, How it Died, and How it can be Reborn by Domenico Losurdo.
There are good orgs doing work in the west. In the US Empire, some good examples are the Party for Socialism and Liberation and Freedom Road Socialist Organization. In my aforementioned Read Theory, Darn it! introductory ML reading list I also stress the importance of getting organized.
I agree with you. But i aslo feel like when people complain about the state of organizing in the US, it doesn’t get acknowledged how thouroughly the left in the US was routed. Every org was infiltrated and compromised. Its leaders and members were assassinated and imprisoned. I’m not argueing against organizing of course, and there are good orgs today like the two you mentioned. I just think it should be acknowledged why we’re in the state we’re in in the US. It’s not because people read some books, and then decided to just allow capitalism to continue. An entire generation of socialists were basically eradicated here
Indeed, the history of organizing in the belly of the empire is one where we have been murdered, de-fanged, infiltrated, crushed, absorbed, mis-directed, digested, and more. For statesians, myself included, trying to slay the monster from in the belly is both the most effective and most dangerous position to be in. That’s why passivity is so common, simply hoping and praying China will save us all and letting everyone else carry the torch of humanity forward. However, how self-centered can one be? To live idly in the belly of empire, often being bribed by the spoils of imperialism, absolving ourselves of any responsibility? Of any struggle?
It isn’t easy, but it isn’t impossible either, it’s merely difficult. And because it’s merely difficult, we are responsible for carrying out our historic duty, for the sake of the international proletariat and an end to the era of imperialism.
This isn’t directed at you, by the way, I just used your comment more as a springboard to attack leftist inaction.
This was the kick in the ass i needed to get over my self-doubt and put in my PSL application
Totally understood, and happy to provide a springboard!
This is an interesting point. I agree that that we in a the US arent off the hook so to speak, and should organize, etc, exactly as you said. But to springboard off you for mement, i think its important for USian leftists to understand that the US is not the main character of the world. I don’t think that their will be a revolution in the US that leads the world to communism. I think the rest of the world will be leading us.
That doesn’t mean we should be passive, there’s still an important role to be played in the US and imperialist West - and as conditions worsen revolutionary potential increases. Its impossible to predict when something will be able to happen here so being organized is important. I just mean that socialism is an international project, and sometimes, particularly the “Western leftists,” talk like the West will bring about the “true” socialism and lead the revolution.
I’ve been thinking about this for a while, but haven’t put it in words yet so I hope that makes sense lol. And of course this isn’t an arguement for passivity, and I’m not diresring this at you or youre above comment.
It sounds like you’re just justifying not reading theory and projecting onto people that have. I wish the US only continued to exist because the people who’ve read theory were allowing it to. That would be a really easy fix