Never claimed to be any kind of China expert but it’s absurd to claim “much more open discourse” if you’ve spent any appreciable amount of time in the countries being discussed. You can literally just walk + talk in public and see the difference.
Like all these asserted freedoms it just magically happens better and free’er but you definitely can’t verify it because “media”. The open political discourse I see and hear in major EU/US cities pales in comparison to the uh… hidden… open discourse in T1/T2 Chinese cities? Definitely heard some first/second hand political discourse but it was never, ever, ever a public forum.
By all means, give me evidence to the contrary. Maybe I just keep catching China with a bad case of the Mondays. Have you been? Can you point to any discourse on domestic politics? Where is the asserted diversity of opinion on hotbed issues? Can you show me any strong opposition to the party line on a public stage?
I have! Have you been on it in China? Have you contrasted the foreign feed to a citizen’s? Have you seen the coordinated response to genuine spreading political discontent vs mundane petty scandals? Because it kinda sounds like you haven’t if you think that’s a killer response.
I have! And I have my Chinese friends feed too. Inside and outside of china. There’s definitely differences, but that’s how algorithms work
Have you seen the coordinated response to genuine spreading political disconten
Yes i have seen it. They solve things pretty fast e.g. COVID lockdowns when minor protests broke out, petit bourgeois real estate protests, etc. doesn’t look like you pay attention to things like that
“Solve” is an interesting verb for suppression of legitimate mass discontent at being physically locked into their apartments. That “solution” worked so well for those “minor protests” that they decided to do a 180° turn from the Zero Covid policy to no restrictions overnight.
Truly a bastion of free speech, except for any real discontent is labeled capitalist subterfuge so we’ll just disregard that.
So do Chinese citizens, though. The state exerts control over private media and the speech of wealthy capitalists, but there’s broad diversity in political thought and discussion.
Chinese too, and openly in the US currently not so much.
People in China are heavy controlled by the Gov, but they have more civil rights and services as citizen in the US
Complete list of banned books in the US. (Autoscroll enabled, due to the hugh amount of those, stop/start with mouseclick)
Lmao what? Do you know what “banning” a book means? It’s just not on offer in schools or a library for that specific state. It’s completely normal to just buy it for yourself and there are even organizations dedicated to distributing banned books.
It’s hilarious to try and dunk on America with this of all things. Media restricted/censored in China is entirely unavailable. It’s actually very interesting how the censorship manifests in daily life, but I imagine any .ml reader will discard those anecdotes (or any verifiable reports) and try to redirect back to the West somehow.
Crazy how you can literally just look this stuff up and find out what’s true instead of discarding arguments.
Independent trade unions are illegal in China. The single, state sanctioned trade union is widely criticized by international trade union orgs for not faithfully representing its workers. By most accounts it exists to funnel labor disputes through a bureaucratic meat grinder of mediation to maintain the status quo. With the exception of a handful of actions for international leverage, all strikes are wildcat.
If you’re actually interested in labor relations in China I’d recommend this article for starters. It’s older but the situation hasn’t improved under recent leadership.
Yes, both countries have serious problems. At least Americans can discuss theirs openly.
The freedom to shout into the void and have none of your concerns addressed.
Not to mention the fact that China has far more open discourse than the US and its media organs / capitalist controlled platforms allow.
I’ll take “things foreigners say when they’ve never been to China” for 500 Alex
I’ll take “sexpat that’s been to China, never left his bubble and is a China expert now” for 500 alex
Never claimed to be any kind of China expert but it’s absurd to claim “much more open discourse” if you’ve spent any appreciable amount of time in the countries being discussed. You can literally just walk + talk in public and see the difference.
Like all these asserted freedoms it just magically happens better and free’er but you definitely can’t verify it because “media”. The open political discourse I see and hear in major EU/US cities pales in comparison to the uh… hidden… open discourse in T1/T2 Chinese cities? Definitely heard some first/second hand political discourse but it was never, ever, ever a public forum.
By all means, give me evidence to the contrary. Maybe I just keep catching China with a bad case of the Mondays. Have you been? Can you point to any discourse on domestic politics? Where is the asserted diversity of opinion on hotbed issues? Can you show me any strong opposition to the party line on a public stage?
I guess you’ve never been on weibo westoid
I have! Have you been on it in China? Have you contrasted the foreign feed to a citizen’s? Have you seen the coordinated response to genuine spreading political discontent vs mundane petty scandals? Because it kinda sounds like you haven’t if you think that’s a killer response.
I have! And I have my Chinese friends feed too. Inside and outside of china. There’s definitely differences, but that’s how algorithms work
Yes i have seen it. They solve things pretty fast e.g. COVID lockdowns when minor protests broke out, petit bourgeois real estate protests, etc. doesn’t look like you pay attention to things like that
“Solve” is an interesting verb for suppression of legitimate mass discontent at being physically locked into their apartments. That “solution” worked so well for those “minor protests” that they decided to do a 180° turn from the Zero Covid policy to no restrictions overnight.
Truly a bastion of free speech, except for any real discontent is labeled capitalist subterfuge so we’ll just disregard that.
You’re free to discuss anything you want as long as it doesn’t actually threaten the status quo in any way lol
Tell that to Malcolm X, MLK, or Fred Hampton
And it’s not like those were one-offs, COINTELPRO was crazy in scope and did massive damage beyond just the murders.
It’s not like that’s all in the past either, just look at how the Palestine protests were handled as well as the Floyd protests.
Lol have you seen what’s been happening to pro Palestine protestors? BLM protestors? Anti Trump protestors? Julian Assange? Edward Snowden?
Those against the Iraq war, or Vietnam war…
Just don’t demand or try to enact real lasting change
You are free to protest as long as we can tuck you in the corner and ignore you
So do Chinese citizens, though. The state exerts control over private media and the speech of wealthy capitalists, but there’s broad diversity in political thought and discussion.
Really? So Chinese citizens can go out and publish an article about why they believe Xi Jinping is actually betraying socialist ideals?
Some have. They’d be wrong, so it’s not super common, but it’s possible, assuming they aren’t a wealthy capitalist or something.
Chinese too, and openly in the US currently not so much. People in China are heavy controlled by the Gov, but they have more civil rights and services as citizen in the US
Complete list of banned books in the US. (Autoscroll enabled, due to the hugh amount of those, stop/start with mouseclick)
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/a45012950/banned-book-list/
US Freedom and Human rights only exist in Fox News.
Lmao what? Do you know what “banning” a book means? It’s just not on offer in schools or a library for that specific state. It’s completely normal to just buy it for yourself and there are even organizations dedicated to distributing banned books.
It’s hilarious to try and dunk on America with this of all things. Media restricted/censored in China is entirely unavailable. It’s actually very interesting how the censorship manifests in daily life, but I imagine any .ml reader will discard those anecdotes (or any verifiable reports) and try to redirect back to the West somehow.
You guys are completely brainwashed if you believe this. They can’t even form a union or strike.
It always amazes me how gringos can just say the dumbest, fakest shit with such confidence then call you brainwashed.
If the State Department said Chinese people can’t play guitar you’d call us brainwashed if we showed you a video of one of them playing.
Crazy how you can literally just look this stuff up and find out what’s true instead of discarding arguments.
Independent trade unions are illegal in China. The single, state sanctioned trade union is widely criticized by international trade union orgs for not faithfully representing its workers. By most accounts it exists to funnel labor disputes through a bureaucratic meat grinder of mediation to maintain the status quo. With the exception of a handful of actions for international leverage, all strikes are wildcat.
If you’re actually interested in labor relations in China I’d recommend this article for starters. It’s older but the situation hasn’t improved under recent leadership.
Chinese average citizens can freely discuss what they want, the “disappearing” is just western propa
Really? So Chinese citizens can go out and publish an article about why they believe Xi Jinping is actually betraying socialist ideals?
I’ve spent some time in Shanghai and that was not my experience there.
My cat’s breath smells like cat food.
Cool story
K
Clearly your experiences didn’t involve a whole lot of being disappeared, you’re still here
Sometimes. For now.