lol i feel like i’ve been suddenly cast into an argument i didn’t realize was gonna happen, nor do i understand why i’ve been roped into it. i did not say, nor mean to imply that i thought you were denying the famine happened. you very clearly stated that you thought no one believes that it didn’t happen. i was just pointing out that in fact, some do. my first comment was in response to bubblybubbles, trying to figure out their take. you may think no one would deny that the famine happened, but it seemed like bubbles might think we’re both gullible rubes for thinking it did.
i also rather object to your ‘very narrow frame of view’ comment. that was just uncalled for. and for what? because i’m trying to learn about stuff and am willing to admit i don’t know everything?
When communists say “Holodomor is debunked,” they mean “Holodomor,” which is the idea of an intentionally genocidal famine. bubblybubbles did not say the 1930s famines were debunked, just “Holodomor.” There’s a tiny, sliver of a chance bubblybubbles doesn’t think there was any famine, but based on available context that’s extremely unlikely.
As for having a narrow frame of view, I apologize if it came across as insulting. Red Scare mythology is omnipresent in the english-speaking internet, and is still prevalent beyond it. The purpose of stating that was to try to highlight that the 1930s famine was far more complex than simply being a catastrophe of incompetence from soviet leadership alone, for example it’s also true that collectivization increased agricultural yields and mitigated the effects of famine.
I do encourage reading more about it, especially from sources after the opening of the soviet archives.
lol i feel like i’ve been suddenly cast into an argument i didn’t realize was gonna happen, nor do i understand why i’ve been roped into it. i did not say, nor mean to imply that i thought you were denying the famine happened. you very clearly stated that you thought no one believes that it didn’t happen. i was just pointing out that in fact, some do. my first comment was in response to bubblybubbles, trying to figure out their take. you may think no one would deny that the famine happened, but it seemed like bubbles might think we’re both gullible rubes for thinking it did.
i also rather object to your ‘very narrow frame of view’ comment. that was just uncalled for. and for what? because i’m trying to learn about stuff and am willing to admit i don’t know everything?
When communists say “Holodomor is debunked,” they mean “Holodomor,” which is the idea of an intentionally genocidal famine. bubblybubbles did not say the 1930s famines were debunked, just “Holodomor.” There’s a tiny, sliver of a chance bubblybubbles doesn’t think there was any famine, but based on available context that’s extremely unlikely.
As for having a narrow frame of view, I apologize if it came across as insulting. Red Scare mythology is omnipresent in the english-speaking internet, and is still prevalent beyond it. The purpose of stating that was to try to highlight that the 1930s famine was far more complex than simply being a catastrophe of incompetence from soviet leadership alone, for example it’s also true that collectivization increased agricultural yields and mitigated the effects of famine.
I do encourage reading more about it, especially from sources after the opening of the soviet archives.