Red Army Dog Cooper

And the german feddit

I have gotten almost 1.5 degrees running linux my only issue is Lockdown browser. Other than that 0 issues

I can understand your hesitation, however there is no way to verify who is doing the moderation, as .ml like many other instances including .world and .ee show all action as user “mod” to try to limit the amount of backlash for mod actions. I can say I personaly disagree with this, however it seems like the most common of the mod log listings.

I can say they both say that they do not activly mod anymore, they are only listed as admin 1) because they own the domain and server, because of the server being a test bed and 2) because by being admin they are able to push the last step beta tests to the server for testing. I can see no reason why I should not belive their statements, however I will admit it is merly me trusting their word.

How I see it having them listed as admin is a necessity of it being the primary testbed instance, and I have no reason to not take them at their word that they no longer are the active moderators, I do fully admit I could be wrong in this assumption, however given I have no evidence one way or the other, and in my personal interactions with them they have seemed to be true to their word, I see no reason to doubt that.

I did address it line by line, I do not agree with your argument.

Where I do agree is that if you find communism so distasteful that you cannot suport a communsim sure no one is forcing you to donate

If this was a reach out saying “Lemmy.ml is hemraging money please give us money to keep the instance up” sure I could understand but what they are saying is “we are the full time devs of the project, we cannot provide the project the hours it needs to survive at the current funding level, please help us keep it alive.” and the responce is “Change the instance moderation style if you want money to develop” and I am saying that I find it very wierd that you and .world feel like they should be able to dicate moderation, especialy when the instance is not the issue at hand.

I am also pointing out that I hear the most complaints about .ml moderation from .world users and .ee users, and I was musing that I find it a double standard that you feel like you are able to impose a will on how to moderate when it is largely popular internaly, but we are screamed at if we do the same.

Now I do not know how replying point by point makes this badfaith, was it that I put my conclusion at the end and your reasons did not change my opinion?

My instance is not asking for money, the devs of the program are, yes they are also on the mod list for this instance however they are clear in the fact that they are asking for this as the only 2 full time developers who. Second they are not posting this on every instance if you look at the poseter they are from .world

Second .world DOES moderate that agressivly, I would argue that they mod more agressivly to their political fraimpoint than .ml does for any reason.

Third they are not just “contributing alot to the code base.” they are doing BY FAR the majoirty of the work, they founded the program, and have not been able to bring on anyone else because as shown above they are barily making enough to scrape by as it is.

I can tell you as a user who has been on there sense the only real alternitives where nitch or beehaw, I have not seen any of this over reaching censorship you claim, now I admit I have a bias of I do go there, my politics are quite left of center, however, the mass censorship that is talked about is not a reality seen by or complained about by the user base

I am also not saying “you must pay them money” what I do find interesting is that there is even before this a large talk about how .ml moderates, dispite its moderation being very well liked and suported by its users, and a change to the style that you are advocating for would be VERY VERY unwelcome within the userbase. The fact that 2 of our admins are also devs, should not give you the outsized right to demand changes in our moderation practices.

I cannot and will not speak for the political beliefs of the devs, but I can tell you that once again as an administration team they are suported, and as for suporting FOSS projects with creators I disagree with, I have donated to Notepad ++, when I used it constantly on windows, the developer is a HUGE Neoliberal, does not try to hide it, I still suported it, because I at the time had the money to suport it and valued his labor in maintaining it.

But this long winded to say, this is still a double standard, that you feel entitled to demand .ml or lemmygrad, or hexbear to change their moderation style, but I a user from .ml cannot request that you change yours. If you don’t want to donate for political reasons just say that, dont couch it in that you want to “liberate” our instance… we by and large like how it is moderated.

They quite literaly in the post said who the devs are, I mean if your issue is that the devs have a test bed. I it seems like you unwilling to split between wht they are asking for “Survive making lemmy the program full time” with there free time that being a mod of .ml

They seem quite popular from .ml users, i only see complaints about them from none .ml users come to think about it. Why should my instance have to listen to your moderation citiques but when I find that your instance is too lax when it comes to the right wing I get told to pound sand “tankie” its not your instance? do we all see this double standard?

It has only been conflated because beehaw and then .world MADE the accusation aganst .ml and then decided to conflate it to the program as a whole, don’t act like this is a natural conflation

“Of course federated elsewhere… Classic ml, hexbear, grad behavior” you see you started by saying it was not one of those 3 and ended by blaiming them. It seems to me your trying to justify an argument that is not founded

I just feel like someone needs to point out the insanity of the latter half, of the post, that dispite a proven track record, because they are not out to make a profit with shareholders or a board of directors they cannot be trusted, I would suspect this is the next goal post they move to if they get satified with paying for labor is ok

I… I do not know where to begin on there ranting that they are not allowed to make a livable wage because they dont have a boss looking over their sholder, dispite having a trackrecord for developing lemmy

I mean interesting, that you cut out other parts of the reply, and then defend an already typed out responce for each point a manifesto. I feel that says more about you than it does about me.

but the TL;DR is that you are pushing the 2 rolls, one as the Developers for the project/platorm and the admin of the testing instance as the exact same roll. They have the costs they need for .ml down and have mentioned that it is from a specific donation sorce as people where asking for, and now they need to be able to live off of making lemmy the project. Now that it is said that your not giving money to .ml you are paying the project developers, in lets be honest most of the cost is labor cost so their salary, as developers you say “Well paying the .ml admin salary is the same as paying for the upkeep of .ml” once agian they mentioned they have now a new bucket for .ml, and this goes so they can contenue to be the developers for the project. That is moving the goal posts, you changed it from I dont want to pay for .ml to i dont want to pay for anything that could even be related to .ml

Well because they are a team, who make the ENTIRE PROGRAM that all the lemmies work on. They are not “just” working for .ml, heck .ml only exists as the last step in the dev process.

Second the “point” of communism is a classless stateless society, wherein the means of production are owned in common by all workers. If you would like to learn more about communism I can get you resource, if you would instead like to use your ignorance as a poorly formed insult, then by all means be my guest, just know that it makes you look ignorant, and like you are unwilling to learn anything.

I am say developers salary, because THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE, they are quite literaly the developers of the whole LEMMY PROJECT, they are the only ones working full time and they do BY FAR the bulk of the of the work.

I am saying the what is defined as going to .ml is slowly being moved, from direct suport cost, well they fixed that issue, to now it being because they are the admin, that is not to say that the second is new nor that I am saying that everyone is switching, I am merely commenting how when that problem was fixed a large number of people moved to the second. Look if you dont want to donate, or are unable to donate fine. Where I am confused, or frustrated is the meaningless distictions being made or the flag in the sand.

Yes I am reading all the threads, why because i have found it the most interesting way to learn about each instance, and I am nosey. However each instance had it posted by their own admin team, and by “insulting difrent users” I mean, sure I have probably done that, but that has not been the primary intent, nor is my intent to get them to pay for the administration of .ml I am saying that .ml plays a part in the dev cycle, so that there is one last review before it goes out, and I find the hand wringing annoying, because they are as the devs of the project asking to be able to live off their labor, the labor that allows your beloved (and in my opinion most toxic instance) .world to function. I am asking for a more proper fraiming of the issue.

This is for them, as the only 2 devs who are full time, to be able to survive contenuing to make lemmy. If you are so agreved they run an instance to use as their public beta, then by all means, but dont act like they are trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes here. First the complaint was hosting, now its the fact that they are asking to be able to survive doing the work, what maintancing code would be. Just say you dont want to donate stop moving the goal posts or acting like something is afoot

Look they only made that statment because every comment threat was that they would only donate if there was a way that it went to the developers and not lemmy.ml, and they got feedback that making a distiction would get people to donate. They are quite clear that this is so they can get a wage they need to survive, and for the record that is mentioned, at the top of the post, that they need to a little more than double donations in order to pay themselves an amount to keep working on this.

You do realise that it was each instance admin that posted outside of .ml They only posted once. I feel like this is obvious, but posting once and having others cross post is not spamming

Careful, someone might see that and say that your observation does not mater because your from .ml

When I mentioned that to me .world has been the second most toxic instence I interact with, and the mos toxic one has more or less died off. I got told it is obvious I would think that, I assume because of my .ml status or because I am a communist. But this toxcisity comes even when I do not mention any of my political beliefs. I am not saying I do not think the .world project is not worth while, however those in glass houses should not be throwing stones.

Heck .World Beehaw where the ones to start pushing that .ml is a Communist instance and not a general purpos one, before they hit the scene, .ml was seen as a general purpous, though with a lean to anti-impearalism, and anti-capitalism, beehaw never had the clout to send the hate mobs out, but .world does.

I know your not from .world, but if we are talking about toxic instances, in my experence the worst ones have been beehaw and world.

Removed by mod