Just today, news, this time directly from a Ukrainian source (so please use a google translate or something): https://focus.ua/uk/voennye-novosti/650441-mobilizaciya-po-novomu-viyskova-policiya-zmozhe-zahoditi-v-zhitlo-ta-vinagorodzhuvati-za-dopomogu

Now, we are not just going to be kidnapped on the streets, they are going to break into our homes, and kidnap us in front of our families and forcibly send to die.

But you still support it, after all it’s not some people worth worrying about, it’s just Ukrainians, we can be slaughtered till the last person in the name of geopolitics, right?

ancap think tank

So basically you have no arguments against what is said there, so you just attack the source instead of disproving anything that is written there? Very cool :)

online “museum”

But what sources would you expect? The mainstream media is not going to report every case, because it shows completely opposite view to the current propaganda that says that Ukraine is a democratic country where people want to fight and die for their glorious master leader Zelensky…
Here is a link for you to msn, is it a more reliable source which you would trust?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ukraine-urgently-needs-soldiers-but-some-men-are-desperate-not-to-fight/ar-BB1naQUE
Some quotes from there:

When you see people in uniform, you panic. You start thinking someone will mobilize you now against your will
You worry that someone will throw you into the bus one day, take you somewhere, turn off your phone, and you will be cut off from the world"
It shows a physical fight between recruitment officers and civilians

Another article:
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-war-recruitment/32310040.html

Another article:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66542065

Telegram threads give tip-offs on where drafting officers are patrolling. There are chats for different regions and cities across the country, sometimes with more than 100,000 members each. there are reports of some being taken away on the spot, without a chance to return home.
But there are claims of officers using harsh or intimidating tactics. There are also reports of conscripts finding themselves on the front line with just a month of training.

Another article, also with a video of “man being dragged into van by conscription officers in Odesa”:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/bribes-and-hiding-at-home-the-ukrainian-men-trying-to-avoid-conscription

How many more sources you need to believe that Ukrainian government is kidnapping people on the streets, forcefully puts them into vans and then sends them to die? People who don’t want to fight for Zelensky, people who just one to live. They want to keep the one thing that is most precious to each human - their life. And our government, with support from your government, and people like you, is murdering thousands of us. Do you really support this? Would you still support it if it wasn’t random people you don’t know, but if it was your family, your father, your son if have one, your friends that were kidnapped and sent to die?

surely you are able to provide reputable sources

Sure :)

what makes the Ukrainian government illegitimate

This articles describes exactly my thoughts on this opinion: https://libertarianinstitute.org/articles/the-end-of-zelenskys-legitimacy/

when it has kidnapped its own civilians and forced them to fight

Every day!
It doesn’t get shown in the western media, but if you subscribe to the local channels of big cities (Kiev/Odessa/Lviv/Kharkiv/etc.), or basically any sources actually covering what’s happening in Ukraine (in Ukrainian or Russian language), you will see videos of TCK (I dunno how to properly translate it, but that’s the government-military organization that does the kidnapping) posted almost every single day, people are caught on the streets and forcibly put into vans. Sometimes people manage to escape them, sometimes the crowd helps fight TCK off, but more often then not they get successfully kidnapped. Some villages got almost every men kidnapped that way (because previously they were scared to operate in big cities and preferred villages, but now they don’t give a shit about anything).
A very small portion of that is documented here: https://uadraftmuseum.ch/

But what is disinformation in my comment?
What is it with lots of people here on lemmy that label everything that doesn’t suit their worldview as misinformation/disinformation/propaganda?
That and name-calling does not change facts, you know, it just shows to other people that you can’t argue your position…

What bridge?

Removed by mod

Hopefully Hungary will stay strong and continue to support Ukrainians, even if it is alone in doing so <3

there’s never been any Ukrainian held election

so, there’s been Chinese election allowing for the secession of this territory?

the hypocrisy is mind-blowing :)

When the Taiwanese people democratically declare they want to become part of China.

Wait what? So if people of a region that is internationally recognized as part of another country declare that they want to be part of another country, you are okay with that?
Then how is Donbass and Crimea doing the same is not okay?
Why is it “rightfully theirs” in case of Ukraine, but not “rightfully theirs” in case of China? What the fuck?

So the second option it is.

When is USA planning to send military aid to China to help it reclaim Taiwan that is rightfully theirs?

Ukraine will continue to fight for what is rightfully theirs

Out of curiosity, how do you define rightfully in that case?
If that “rightfully” is defined as “they owned it before”, how long ago does it go? 5 years? 10 years? 100 years? Or just for as long as it is convenient for you? Should Mongolia try to reconquer all the territories it once owned?
Or is it “rightfully” as in “recognized in international law”/“defined by UN” or something like that? In that case, you surely agree that China should fight for Taiwan, right?

Pretty sure Russia “kidnaps” (conscripts) a hell of alot more than Ukraine does.

Russia does have conscription which is totally immoral and wrong as well, but it does not kidnap people into army (or at least does not do that on a scale nearly close to Ukraine).
Ukraine literally does kidnapping (catching people on the streets, running after them and using force to put them into vans/etc. Some people manage to self-defend with pepper-sprays, or outrun them or sometimes got protected by a crowd of people, but those are the lucky ones).
Source: uadraftmuseum.ch, and if you search comments on this post you’ll see another guy posting a link to nytimes (a western media!) talking about the same, but it is paywalled and I cannot read it so I won’t repost it.

Russia also beating Ukrainians in the occupied territories

Yes. Note how I never said that Russia are the good guys. There are no good guys, everybody commits warcrimes (Including Ukraine, USA, and all the other countries that are currently considered good guys by the mainstream media). I am just saying that people in Russia (including Ukrainians on occupied territories) have unimaginably more freedom than people in Ukraine.

forcing them to become Russian citizens

I included a source for my claims, surely you have a source for your claims? There was another article here on lemmy about nuclear power plant where “everything is going terrible right now, because only the intelligent Ukrainians know how to operate it, and they are not allowed to work on it because they have refused to accept Russian citizenship”. So which one is it, are they forced to become Russian citizens or not?

either forcing them into fighting against their own country or ship them off to some labour camp never too be seen again.

Which is so much different from what Ukraine does, right? Or in case of Ukraine it’s all alright because the west supports it, but in case of Russia it’s barbaric?
Btw, any source on “ship them off to some labour camp never too be seen”? I suspect you might have confused history of USSR with current events.

Do you think they are “free” to leave Russia?

Literally, yes. Some of my family (but unfortunately not everyone, because lately escaping this west-supported mass-prison is almost impossible) managed to escape Ukraine by going to occupied territories, and from there to Russia itself, and then they just left Russia and went wherever they wanted. (Obviously nobody here would believe that I’m actually Ukrainian, because as we all know all Ukrainians are happy to die in the meat grinder while screaming “for the glory of Zelensky, my only master”, and those who want their family and friends to stay alive are Russian bots, so you can replace “my family” with “many Ukrainians” if that will make it easier for you to read).
Do you have any sources claiming otherwise?

You naming it conscription instead of kidnapping doesn’t mean it’s not kidnapping. Talk about calling spade a spade…

Would you like to explain what’s exactly dumb about that?

So if you hate Putin so much - then why don’t you go and fight him yourself? Why do you want millions of Ukrainians to die instead of you, for your goals? How can you think you have a moral high ground supporting a genocide?

That’s not freedom.

Have you read what I’ve written? Let me quote myself again:

Ukrainians who failed to escape Ukraine don’t really have a choice other live in fear that today might be the day they (or their family) get kidnapped and sent to the army, or try to escape and get caught by “heroes” of the border patrol who carefully watch that nobody escape the meat grinder (unless they give them a hefty bribe).

You’re absolutely right about Russia having problems you’ve described, I’ve never said Russia is a good place to live (except when comparing to current situation in Ukraine) but in Ukraine people are getting kidnapped and sent to die! Literally! How can you even compare those two things?
If you don’t like what happens in Russia - you can just leave. You are not a hostage! If you like Ukraine so much - go buy a ticket and join army as a volunteer.
If you don’t like what happens in Ukraine - you can’t do anything! You are not allowed to leave country, don’t even dream about going to Russia! You can’t even come close to a border! You are treated worse than a street dog! You can only try to hide from the government until it gets overthrown or until somehow the war ends.

stupid fucking clowns

Ad Hominem

So, wanting my family that is trapped in Ukraine to stay alive makes me a Russian loyalist? How so?

Ukrainians in Crimea and other annexed territories [that are not close to the front lines] have more or less normal life now. They can continue living where they live, or they can at any moment return to Ukraine, nobody is holding them hostage, they are free!
On the other hand, Ukrainians who failed to escape Ukraine don’t really have a choice other live in fear that today might be the day they (or their family) get kidnapped and sent to the army, or try to escape and get caught by “heroes” of the border patrol who carefully watch that nobody escape the meat grinder (unless they give them a hefty bribe).

That’s quite a reasonable one, except

they were unable to discuss

because AFAICS nobody tried to discuss anything with them, so for me it wouldn’t be an easy task to grade their discussion skills. On the other hand I suppose you have a point that their message doesn’t invite a discussion either…

Have a good one.

Thanks, you too.