I don’t disagree on pure specs–because yeah, definitely–but on You Have One Job project level, I’m on the fence. My Black was way more stable running Open Thread Border Router than my Pi was. With the Beagle Play, the eMMC is honestly amazing. I don’t think it outperforms my Samsung Pro 990 on my laptop but it definitely beats the NVME I have on one of my Pi’s.
The shop link is already in my tech shop bookmarks. The price tag is unreal good.
There are way less productive and interesting hobbies and interests.
My honest opinion: literally any hobby or interest that makes you happy and makes your life better is productive and valid and should be encouraged, but i do have an acquaintance who once in a while forgets I am a nerd with a nerd son and a nerd’s ability to google productively and extensively. I do not need to play to know how much it costs for serious gameplay when you’re into Magic the Gathering so you really want to talk about my forays onto Newark, Mouser, and Adafruit? He does not.
(Honestly, I’d bankrupt myself if i was into Magic the Gathering; I am not a gamer and stick with stuff like Animal Crossing and Stardew Valley and Final Fantasy because I only have two modes; casual and competitive murder if it hits me right. Even thinking about getting into DnD makes me a little nervous; in theory it seems like I’d be okay but that transformation into Seperis-Hyde is really distressing.)
I bought Home Assistant Blue from Ameridroid, which was Home Assistant’s first (and happily still continuing) jump into making Home Assistant more accessible and easy if you weren’t a hobbyist or tinkerer: Odroid N2+ preloaded with Home Assistant OS, a super adorable blue case, and power supply. That was my first experience with that board and with eMMC; 128 GB of it, talk about turning my head (also 4 GB RAM). Honestly, the only reason I didn’t get another is I didn’t have a project that required it; the reason I even found out the Beagles existed was the Open Source Border Router project I wanted to do had it as an option for the walk-through and gave me a reason to test drive.
But I have to agree: I’ve been running it straight for three years now and the Odroid does its job with zero issues. Home Assistant and its parts have given me problems, but Blue (yes, it’s name is Blue, it was just there) never does.
No, and even with the Pis, that woud be only the Pi Zero/Zero 2 range. I bought Andromeda Pi (Pi4 8GB) right before COVID and the board alone generally ran $64 for that model (less for 1, 2, 4 GB) but that was before mandatory accessorise; Andromeda’s kit was $115 therabouts.
The only equivalentish board with low overhead is the BeagleBone Black (~$65 for the board, ~$10 for the case, ~$7 for the power, ~$8 for the sd card = ~$90). It has eMMC but only 4GB (you can actually run from that but only Single Project use cases) or you use sd card. I will say, either sd cards have improved tremendously since I first ran my Pi’s off them or Beagle and Pi Zero 2 are witches, because other than during initial install/updates (which yeah, is slow as hell) or running some heavy work, response time is fine. On my Black, boot is roughly equal to my Pis who all run on the fastest usb drives I could find or a dedicated NVME. My Play is the fastest going off eMMC (it has 16 GB so I can run from it), but that’s ‘holy shit’ territory so I don’t use it as a baseline for anyone else.
In case anyone ever needs this: Silicon Power 3D NAND is almost shockingly fast. I got the rec off a tech website, invested $8, and was indeed shocked. Boot time is great. I haven’t gone above 64 GB cards, though.
I’m testing the SAMSUNG PRO Plus, which also seems to be performing amazingly, but the size (128 GB) is still giving me pause.
Completely subjective experience: above 64 GB, sd cards seem to slow down faster regardless of how much data you actually have on them. I could be imagining it, but that feeling goes back to before Pi’s were bootable from USB.
God, tell me about it. I did not fully appreciate the Pi until the Beagle, which has an ecosystem that seems to be following some branch of chaos theory when it comes to organization.
Pine64: I honestly regret I didn’t follow up on this more before now because I had no idea about the Pinebook and Pinetab and I’ve been thinking about diy tablets, since diy laptops are still–really not a thing and it occurred to me just recently to see what’s up with open source tablets. I use a kindle for reading but when I went back to school, most of my books aren’t really Kindle-compatible so I bought a Galaxy Tab Ultra (10 inch, as eyesight) both so I could use Kindle search functions and a readable text size and so I blow up the diagrams. It wasn’t as horrendously expensive as it could have been because, like my phone, I trade in yearly to upgrade, not because i need to but because–depressingly–it’s more affordable when I can get max trade-in value and watch carefully for Samsung’s random discounts.
So yes, I am excited about this. My tablet is a very different use case from my phone (which no, no way to switch to open-source or Linux there at this point); migrating to an open source tablet is actually a possibility. So very cool.
I consider SBCs drastically overhyped these days. RaspberryPi was nice enough when it was released a decade ago, but these days you can just get a Beelink or similar miniPC, which is much more capable and often even cheaper. It doesn’t have the GPIO, but even if you need that, you are generally better served with a cheap MCU connected to USB.
I would put it another way; they’re ideal for You Have One Vital Job Only projects; Home Assistant and Pihole are my two specific, but robotics, a router, even a dedicated NAS would be a use case. I could run a lot of things on a mini PC with a hypervisor–soon, I shall start be experimenting with that–but One Vital Job Only projects are ones that do their thing without me ideally ever noticing them other than maintenance, if that makes sense. And even more important, things I should not tinker with because they’re just fine, which is why I ended up building a second, dedicated Media Server/media ripping/encoding/NAS machine; once I did that, I finally had a stable media library I could access for more than a month at a time before I got An Idea That Would Be Fun and Oops Time To Reinstall (seriously; before I built that machine, I had to run my media and plex from a Pi (aka One Vital Job) because if I put it on my main machine, I’d tinker it to death; hence, separate everything. I am basically hiding the cookies from a three year old and I am the three year old).
Tentatively–and this applies to a much smaller population–they’re perfect for deconstructing the Linux kernel and operating systems in general because you get to work at a reduced scale. I have the repository for the Pi kernel in my bookmarks and go to just read through it and get familiar when I have some time or if I remember something I want to look for (my usb wifi dongle testing project was invaluable for how much kernel homework I had to do, it’s hilarious). I know and can write in basic C++, I know how to compile, but I still don’t pretend to understand the kernel; with the Pi’s scale, though, I can grasp it, if that makes sense. I can recognize the structure and begin to get how things fit together. I can even–tentatively–find specific parts, identify drivers, especially when it comes to specific removable hardware where it’s fairly obvious and easy to follow (following actual driver files…that’s in progress). My goal before I die is to be able to read and follow the entire kernel end to end; I think I’m going to need to look into the benefits of reincarnation or cryogenics admittedly, but hope springs eternal.
(BeagleBones–if nothing else–has seriously upped my game on Figure It Out For Yourself. Which yes is a very me-specific use case, requires more homework to get context than literally every class I’m taking combined including TCP/IP class, and I literally don’t have time to do in more than sprints, but did lead to me literally being able to making my first Universal New Install Checklist (covers every Linux operating system I’ve ever used including all my personal configurations and scripts, in order, with all exceptions) and my first foray into creating an auto-install-and-configure script I can run on a new machine. Yes, those Beagles had me doing a clean install that many times. No idea what I’m doing there and I really wish there was a universal template for that.)
Having said that, I haven’t jumped into MiniPC/hypervisor culture so I am up for changing my mind the minute I make the leap. And seriously, this thread has moved it actively up my priority list, which I did not see coming, so thank you for that.
Raspberry Pi OS is solid; that’s the first kernel I reconfigured and recompiled myself and the first OS I felt comfortable making more major changes and at this point, it’s basically fully designed for the abilities and limitations of a Pi. But there are many distros you can check that have made an effort to work specifically with the Pi. I concentrate now on with the Zeros and Beagles with low eMMC is getting a very solid and fast sd card to run off off and keep a clean copy.
Weirdly, I’ve really gotten into sdcards as drive; I finish my configuration and get it how I want, then make an image and either back it up or put it on a backup card; no downtime I mess anything up or need to reinstall, just switch cards (or move the card from one Pi to the other). I was thinking that might be convenient for you too; once you get a solid configuration done and your programs loaded and ready to run, you copy it and keep some backups on extra cards. Like yes, nvme and ssd and usb and eMMC are much faster but they are not convenient when it’s Thing That Has This Very Specific Job where all I have to do is whip out my backup card, switch it out, and keep going.
I am so weirdly curious about what you decide to go with and why. This is one of the uses of SBCs I always thought was the most obvious: field work, especially if it’s impractical to go over network or testing/data checks are intensive and need direct contact.
Go with God. The Beagles are amazing; if they can get their shit together, their price would make them a decent rival for Pi and if the eMMC is too small, the sd card boot–at least on my Black–is faster than either of my Zeros… I found out recently Texas Instruments does have an update to do USB boot on at lest some of the boards but can’t find documentation. Which is typical.
My favourite toy at the moment is actually my StarFive VisionFive 2 RISCV board, its been fun trying it out and getting applications to compile on it which don’t officially support RISC-V.
You are living the dream. And I need to google that more.
Oh, this is a nice collection!! If you want to experiment, either RPi will support Open Thread Board Router if you’re into that, or a NAS; I ran one off Pi 4 with OpenMediaVault and it did not even dent its resources.
I am now wondering if I should start looking into my own firewalls.
I’m watching this thread to see the recommendations. The only SBC I have seen that was designed for routers was a Pi that was on Vilros; you had to get special permission or something to even order it.
ADHD here: I live for finding people who know how to enjoy their hobby correctly: like you’re invading a country and taking no prisoners.
I’m using a Netgear r7800 with ddwrt, with hopes to eventually move dhcp handling over to the Zima Board.
I am seriously feeling the Zima, but I just went over to Orbi Pro 6–yes, I gave in for Wifi 6 and no regrets, the coverage with just one satellite and the router is unreal. I’m trying to decide if I’ll have time, but I really desperately want to learn OpenWRT; my first try was–well, there hasn’t been a second one. But there will be. I picked up some (read; too many) USB Wifi dongles via rmorrow’s list of linux compatible ones, so I could try and test drive a diy wifi router with it. God, that sounds fun.
The transcoding problem is one that keeps popping up. Depending on your price point, the NVIDIA SHIELD Pro (latest) can handle anything–and it is a genuinely amazing streamer and really spoils you for most of the rest–but that means it would only work when watching using that over Plex or whatever media server software you can put on it. And I think the X-Box? When I was researching during COVID, the only other all-in-one option was a full dedicated server with either Threadripper or something in that family; I think when I did the math, just for the processor, my minimum investment for 4K and Atmos/7.1 was roughly $600-$800 if I was lucky, and that’s before the board and like, a sound system that does Atmos.
I know there were some other possible options with hardware, but it’s been a while. If I think of anything, I’ll bookmark this page to post here. Hopefully you’ll find something you like and will work for you. I know exactly how frustrating it is finding a solution.
My dude, that is beautiful I now need to google C.H.I.P to see what’s going on. And yeah, my Black is seriously solid.
Oh, that will be fun. Yeah, the Pi 4 is the universal screwdriver of SBCs and there’s so much community and documentation, it’s just amazing. Good luck!
Main forum: https://forum.beagleboard.org/ for ARM64 boards; https://forum.beagleboard.org/t/arm64-debian-11-x-bullseye-monthly-snapshots-2023-07-01/32318 for the rest: https://forum.beagleboard.org/t/debian-11-x-bullseye-monthly-snapshot-2023-07-01/31280
There’s also a discord, linked in the forum. Hit me up if you want my link collection for Beagle: I started bookmarking literally anywhere that I went that looked vaguely relevant.
I love my Beagles but the mess that is Getting Started and the latest OS releases alone is just…why.
That is a lesson I learned dipping into BeagleBoard and it’s driving me insane.
Like, the BeagleBone Black and BeaglePlay are extremely solid SBCs; the Black, which I run off an SD card, is incredibly solid and the Play is–I mean, reading the specs it may literally be able to do anything. They’re also easy to get and at a reasonable price point. But the ecology and documentation, even the official Getting Started page, are nightmare fuel and by the way, do not use those instructions as they are broken and the associated OS is three years old. If you google enough, however, you may eventually realize you have to go to the forums and find the two threads where the latest OS updates–as in, this month–are being posted or go to the individual documentation linked off of the board, where you will probably find up something like a workflow or will give you enough for some extrapolation.
There are attempts to get the OS and kernel up to date and integrate them with Beagle-specific packages and cape firmware, but this is not just like a whole bunch of separate groups doing different things not talking to each other; it’s like they don’t even know the other groups exist when everyone is technically working on the same projects. It’s depressing.
I love how my post about SBCs is slowly but surely pushing me to test out a mini-PC sooner than later. Added to hardware wish list for future mulling after the move; I really do want to start learning the ins and outs of how to use a hypervisor and it’s really convenient to have recommended options to pick from for what to run it on.
Hand it over to the Southern Poverty Law Center.