First the crazy: Alabama has been calling embryos and fetuses ‘people’ for a long time. The latest ruling says that even frozen embryos are ‘people’. This ruling says:
“We believe that each human being, from the moment of conception, is made in the image of God, created by Him to reflect His likeness. It is as if the People of Alabama took what was spoken of the prophet Jeremiah and applied it to every unborn person in this state: ‘Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, Before you were born I sanctified you.’ Jeremiah 1:5 (NKJV 1982)”.
source: archive: https://archive.is/fBJnL | https://premierchristian.news/en/news/article/created-by-him-to-reflect-his-likeness-alabama-judge-quotes-bible-in-embryo-lawsuit-ruling
USA Today points to Gorsuch as opening the gates to highly religious rulings:
The First Amendment’s Establishment Clause typically limits the role religion can play in government, but the U.S. Supreme Court in 2022 changed the longstanding process by which it reviewed conflicts between government and religion. The decision to change that process was written by Justice Gorsuch, who said the court needed to rely more heavily on “reference to historical practices and understandings.” Parker, the Alabama judge, specifically referenced Gorsuch in his concurrent opinion.
source: archive: https://archive.is/cPjgw | https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/02/22/ivf-opinion-from-alabama-justice-was-overtly-religious/72689378007/
Slate points out that by the Court’s own logic, both the ‘parents’ and the clinic should be charged with murder (as well as the person who actually dropped the embryos).
source: archive: https://archive.is/7l3vx | https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/02/abortion-bans-alabamas-anti-ivf-ruling-fail.html
WITH ALL THAT:
Perhaps it is a good thing that the whole nation now has a reason to take a long hard look at what it means to be a ‘person’. I’ve seen studies saying anywhere from 20%-60% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion; most before the woman realizes she is pregnant. This paper says maybe as low as 10%, but only if you aren’t paying attention: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5741961/
The spontaneous miscarriage rate varies between from 10% to 20% where 10% refers to late recognition of pregnancy and 20% refers to research involving routinely testing for pregnancy before 4 weeks or 4 weeks after the last menstrual period
This chart says there’s a 30% chance of miscarrying in the first week, with reduced risks after that: https://datayze.com/miscarriage-chart
Per Alabama, is God that invested in killing ‘unborn’ ‘people’? Given how likely it is for an embryo to naturally abort, can we ever claim “beyond reasonable doubt” that a pregnancy was ever viable?
The above Slate piece suggests the unborn be treated as property. That might work for cells you want to keep, but note that there’s a Supreme Court precedent that discarded cells are NOT a person’s property and can be commercialized (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrietta_Lacks#Consent_issues_and_privacy_concerns).
If we try to define when life begins, the Religious Right is sure to get deference. Look at how they’ve put “heartbeat bills” in place for embryos that don’t HAVE HEARTS! Personally, I don’t think setting a time constraint should be involved in defining life, but we’re here to chat and discuss.
Lastly, CNN offered an opinion that we could choose to be more like South Korea which ruled (as summarized in Op-Ed):
If embryonic or fetal life has value, the state shouldn’t start with criminalization. Instead, the government may have a constitutional obligation to advance its interest in protecting that life in ways that don’t limit reproductive liberty, by protecting pregnant workers, delivering better prenatal care or safe housing and reducing the rate of maternal mortality.
source: archive: https://archive.is/GV0M0 | https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/opinions/alabama-supreme-court-fetal-embryo-personhood-abortion-ziegler/index.html
It may help convince people to move away from Alabama?
Which could be good for them personally, but bad for the country as a whole.
So many people aren’t privileged enough to move away. It takes money to move states. A lot more money to move somewhere not-archaic.
Yes, this is the realistic answer here. So many are just flat-out trapped.
Then again, so long as they continue to vote for these Republican jokers who keep doing these things, that’s kinda on them?
The heart-breaking part is, as you say, the poorer people that are not doing that, yet have no other options offered to them.
So my comment would have been better phrased as “want to move”. But… there are no easy answers here. People are going to literally die no matter what.
True. Keep in mind that there is lots of voter suppression as well there. But yeah, it’s on the people voting R.
And not fighting back, I suppose, though what are you going to do, realistically?
Remember that rally in Charleston, NC - the one where people announced ahead of time that they were going to kill people? then they wrapped barbed wire around their bats? and then they actually killed people? Oh right, I forgot, the other side failed to secure a proper permit so… “many sides” we are told:-|.
So it is not merely “voter” suppression, but suppression done in many ways - e.g. fear.
For the record, I never felt that you were fighting back. Nor have I been really disagreeing with you.
And REALLY good point. One thing we fail to realize is how much tribalism affects people as well. No one wants to stand out and be cast out of their tribe. When that happened throughout history, those people died. So when your friends and coworkers say one thing, the most you can do for your own survival sometimes is simply stay quiet.
To add to that, you have hopelessness. What use is trying to make change when the odds are insurmountable. I really feel for people living there. So many people must feel hated by those around them, and they feel like there’s nothing they can do.
Oh, by “not fighting back” I meant people in states like Alabama not doing anything to challenge the status quo (e.g. vote Dem). But me not fighting back against you is also a true statement:-).
And then I didn’t want you to think I was “blaming” those who did not fight back - they have good reasons, including fear of retribution.
One of my heroes George Carlin basically advocated for giving up and not voting at all. The caveat is that back when he said that, the “both sides-ism” actually more or less worked, prior to Newt Gingrich pushing to weaponize tribalism in the Republican party (at least some people trace it back to that pivot point, though surely the roots go much further into the hundreds of years, or millenia before USA even started, or even prior to us becoming homo sapiens:-).
All that I have managed to come up with so far - perhaps all that ever was really - is that while you can’t change everything everywhere, you can change yourself, and we are in fact responsible for doing at least that (although that interleaves with interactions with others b/c how will you improve yourself by just walling yourself off from society and reading all the time?). So, since I do not live in Alabama, I choose to be sad for them, but I will work wherever I happen to find myself at any given moment - and be glad that I do not live there.
So much this. Just moving one state in any direction can easily cost $20k, maybe $30k, and that’s if you live in a 400 square foot apartment and want to take more than a backpack and a suitcase with you.
“Just move” is often said by people who’ve never had to actually pay to move (and I don’t mean just into a college dorm room).
So, I live in Alabama and I’m not sure where any of these numbers are coming from. I agree with you in principle - that it’s unreasonable to tell people “you just need to move” - but for me has more to do with the fact that most folks that are most affected by these types of laws are already struggling, and job hunting in another state is difficult.
But moving just one state in any direction from Alabama still puts you in either: Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee, or Florida. And housing prices aren’t dramatically higher in any of those states with the exceptions of metro Atlanta or possible the coastal or metro areas of Florida, or Nashville. Median housing price in MS is actually lower than in Alabama, somehow. And as for the cost of moving, most folks that would struggle with a move aren’t going to be hiring movers, they’ll be renting a Uhaul (about $400 one way) and getting friends/family to help them load and unload it.
That’s not to say that moving to another state is easy or even feasible for a lot of folks, especially folks that are already on the margins. I was just a little confused by the numbers in your post, lol.
Those numbers came from when I moved from Pittsburgh to northern Virginia in 2005. It was around $20kus for the whole thing (and yes, I had a 400 square foot apartment originally).
Ah yeah, location probably makes a big difference. Cost of Living is waaaay lower here, but so is median income so 🤷♂️
It will definitely drive doctors out, just look how Idaho’s maternity wards are doing
Yeah, or rather not doing, I remember hearing about that:-).
I also recall a story of a doctor in southern Missouri (east of Springfield iirc, so near Tennessee & Kentucky: think Lindsey Graham & Mitch McConnell) who succeeded in getting funding for a new institute / center… wait, let me rephrase this: he was a JOB CREATOR who BROUGHT IN HIS OWN FUNDING to start a whole new era of medical research in that part of the country, which is their stated dream right? (what Midwestern town doesn’t have as their top claim that they want to be the next “hub” for biotech/whatever?) He did not merely talk the talk, he SUCCEEDED in this endeavor.
And ofc he got death threats, for both him and his family. So, that was the end of that. He wanted to help them, but not at any cost. This was very early in the pandemic - one of the first stories like that (that I saw anyway) - but obviously it would not be the last.
Fast-forward to 4 years later, and the damage done to our entire nation’s healthcare system is incalculable. BUT NOT EQUALLY distributed - some areas are affected more highly than others. Some areas have roads, bridges, police, firefighters, teachers, doctors - you know, “infrastructure” - while other areas not so much. We are fast dividing into two Americas, and while we have always had facets (rich vs. poor, white vs. black, mean vs. women), I would be hard-pressed to think of a more noticeable dividing line b/t “has access to medical care” vs. “not” (plus the latter also has almost literal slavery - with more black people incarcerated under a for-profit prison system than were ever used as slaves).
And I could even halfway respect some of that - not the death threats to be clear but I mean like if they want to pass a law and convert themselves to all become Amish then that’s their own lives, so what right do I have to have any sort of opinion about how they want to be, you know? even if it means their own death, so long as it’s their personal choice - the main trouble being that these people are not content to merely make choices for their own selves, but have to impose it upon others. e.g. if they choose to “not pay for medical care” in their own, rural areas, but then they drive into the cities and demand medical care there - sometimes holding literal guns while they do it too. (after the repeal of Roe vs. Wade this attitude got a lot more obvious)
Anyway, yeah, it’s going to do a lot of harm. I suspect that was the point, behind one of Russia’s various disinformation campaigns, though “we” (Americans) are the ones dumb enough to have fallen for the tricks.