• CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    “People get a bigger slice of the … pie until the ruling class decides to take the slice away”
    Isn’t that just the same with all systems?

    • NuclearDolphin@lemmy.ml
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      24 hours ago

      The state is the mechanism through which one class exerts its dominance over the others.

      Bourgeois states are the enforcement arm of capital. When it offers improved conditions, it is merely a carrot to prevent you from taking actions that may jeopardize its power.

      In a similar vein, proletarian controlled states can do the same, but the concessions go towards capital and the day-to-day ruling is on behalf of the workers.

      If we want concessions that cannot be revoked, we must overthrow the bourgeois state and replace with a workers state. We cannot reform our way into a society where capital does not have near complete power.

      • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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        18 hours ago

        proletarian controlled states can do the same

        This is as much a utopia as capitalist “trickle down economy”. It cannot exist because proletariat, in the vast majority, is dumb as a sack of bricks.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          17 hours ago

          That was George Orwell’s view, but it’s wrong. Historically, socialist states have been dramatically effective at raising up standards of living, and it’s because the working class is quite well aware of its own interests and how to run society. You don’t need everyone to specialize in everything, that’s why political education and education in general are so valued in socialist countries.

              • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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                4 hours ago

                You’re calling USSR or PRC “socialist”? WTF is this? A joke? I thought we’re having a serious conversation here.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  4 hours ago

                  Yes, both the USSR and PRC are typical examples of socialism. Public ownership is the principle aspect of both the former USSR’s economy and the PRC’s economy, same with Cuba, Vietnam, etc. Not sure what you’re getting at.

                  • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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                    2 hours ago

                    LOL, excellent jokes all around!

                    Yes, both the USSR and PRC are typical examples of socialism

                    Both USSR and PRC are prime examples of bog-standard totalitarian dictatorships. I have no clue where you’re getting the “socialism” bits from. The fact that they said they are? Do you also believe that North Korea is a Democracy, because it’s in their name?

                    Public ownership is the principle aspect of both the former USSR’s economy and the PRC’s economy

                    There’s no public ownership in either. In USSR it was “friends of friends” (the people who we now call the Oligarchs) and in PRC you have a “dictator-approved capitalism” with companies being privately owned.

                    I’ll admit that I don’t know enough about Cuba or Vietnam to discuss them.