Can confirm. Just switched to Linux about 2 weeks ago. I am happy enough, but there was a brutal learning curve. This was for a distro that is user friendly, too. I was able to install just fine, but actually getting my environment set up is an ongoing process.
Many Linux distros are getting there, but they still aren’t ready for casual users.
I don’t think the learning curve is any harder than someone who’s learning Windows for the first time.
It’s just different. Honestly in some ways simpler IMO. But if you were a life long Mac user and touched Windows for the first time today you’d probably have a rougher time I think.
Wouldn’t you have the same experience if you moved from iOS to Android, never having used Android before? Does that make Android not ready for casual use?
If you have used Windows your whole life, there will definitely be a learning curve getting used to Linux and whatever desktop environment you choose to use.
I personally have better experience having casual users use Linux than Windows.
In fact, one has a similar learning curve going from Android to iOS (as I learned when I transitioned to iPhone) even if iOS is broadly considered more “user friendly.”
I think you’re onto something. Switching to Windows would be painful to anyone used to Linux regardless of all the philosophical differences simply because the OS works differently. Lord knows I despise MacOS despite people who use it saying, “it just works.”
I was only using “from iOS to Android” as an example. I believe it would be equally difficult going from Android to iOS. As you, I also despise using MacOS. It’s a struggle, because I’m not used to it in any way.
There is a difference between going from a GUI based OS to a hybrid GUI/console OS.
For both iOS and Android the only difference is where things live. The processes are still the same.
This is not the case with Windows and Linux. If you want to install something in Windows you go to a website and download an installer. For Linux, you find out if there is a package. If not you go to a website and see if there is an app image or zip file. You then need to know where to place the downloaded file, how to get it running (making it executable), knowing how to chmod and chown (it is better to have to do it like in Linux, but it is an extra step), and how to add it to your desktop (there is no right+click and add to desktop/create shortcut option in Arch based distros like there is on Windows). If there is a service component you may need to go into command line and systemctl to enable it.
Your comparison to iOS and Android is not really appropriate.
For Linux, you find out if there is a package. If not you go to a website and see if there is an app image or zip file. You then need to know where to place the downloaded file, how to get it running (making it executable), knowing how to chmod and chown (it is better to have to do it like in Linux, but it is an extra step), and how to add it to your desktop (there is no right+click and add to desktop/create shortcut option in Arch based distros like there is on Windows). If there is a service component you may need to go into command line and systemctl to enable it.
I don’t think I’ve ever followed that workflow to be honest. Except for when doing something niche and way above and beyond something a casual user would do.
Open the software center, search what you want. Click install. Done. I use the terminal to the same effect but that’s by preference. Installing packages as you described is not at all recommended… They won’t update with the system.
The “add to desktop” thing really depends on your Desktop Environment too. GNOME not really, KDE and most others yeah.
I’m curious what setup you have to do?
I do some customization of KDE on my desktop, but for my laptops it’s always install and use without the need to setup anything.
I am using CachyOS. I was able to find my way around because I knew what I needed to look up due to existing server experience, but a first time user would likely struggle a lot more.
You should give the name of the distro rather than just say modern. Ubuntu is “modern” and they broke the auto-updates for everyone some months ago. It’s more about stability than modernity
oh, so when the Linux fanboys come out and say “you should switch to Linux, it’s easy!” they actually mean learn the decades long history of countless distributions, fork infighting, and an untold amount of software and hardware compatibility baggage, THEN switching will be easy! silly of me to make such a mistake!
No? I just said it would be nicer if you precised the name of the distro when you have an issue. This way I’m less likely to recommand an unstable distro. That’s it.
You obviously can’t be expected to know what distro is stable or not, I don’t either
yes, Nvidia, and who knows for the rest. i think it was Debian-based, maybe Mint. they went back to Win11 after barely a month because it was so rough, despite years of experience with Linux.
Thats a hardware related annoyance that I’ve even seen on commercially distributed versions of Linux, and if it were set up correctly, you wouldn’t have even noticed (aside from a bunch of scrolling text during the next boot when the new kernel was loaded). I had a client where they couldn’t even get to the console of the server for this reason. Once set up correctly though, those updates have chugged away in the background… but I digress.
I’m assuming you (and your partner) have no trouble at all navigating around and using linux, it was the (poorly managed) update process that gave you headaches. I think that is a perfectly reasonable complaint.
yep, I have used many linux distros for 20 years or so, and they are certainly much harder to migrate to than checks notes pressing two keys and running a command to get a local account.
good luck getting more than a few hours into a fresh linux install without needing to use a CLI, lol
quoting me and saying “don’t you see?” is not exactly demonstrating reading comprehension.
if you want to go on a crusade against CLIs, feel free, but leave me out. i think they’re great.
the comparison i replied to was whether it was easier to migrate to Linux vs setting up a local account, and any user is going to spend much more time migrating than running a single command.
I have nothing against, CLI, the point is that you’re complaining about needing to use CLI on Linux, even though you literally just said that you have to use it to get your pirated Windows to work.
I’ve installed Ubuntu and fedora workstation on 5 machines in the past 6 months. Not a single install required using the terminal even once. A couple of those installs were on sketchy hardware and everything still just worked.
Meanwhile I installed win11 on a new machine a couple of weeks ago and it had missing drivers on install, trouble activating, and the login screen switched to Chinese characters after a few reboots (it is a known bug).
not really
Can confirm. Just switched to Linux about 2 weeks ago. I am happy enough, but there was a brutal learning curve. This was for a distro that is user friendly, too. I was able to install just fine, but actually getting my environment set up is an ongoing process.
Many Linux distros are getting there, but they still aren’t ready for casual users.
I don’t think the learning curve is any harder than someone who’s learning Windows for the first time.
It’s just different. Honestly in some ways simpler IMO. But if you were a life long Mac user and touched Windows for the first time today you’d probably have a rougher time I think.
Wouldn’t you have the same experience if you moved from iOS to Android, never having used Android before? Does that make Android not ready for casual use?
If you have used Windows your whole life, there will definitely be a learning curve getting used to Linux and whatever desktop environment you choose to use.
I personally have better experience having casual users use Linux than Windows.
In fact, one has a similar learning curve going from Android to iOS (as I learned when I transitioned to iPhone) even if iOS is broadly considered more “user friendly.”
I think you’re onto something. Switching to Windows would be painful to anyone used to Linux regardless of all the philosophical differences simply because the OS works differently. Lord knows I despise MacOS despite people who use it saying, “it just works.”
I was only using “from iOS to Android” as an example. I believe it would be equally difficult going from Android to iOS. As you, I also despise using MacOS. It’s a struggle, because I’m not used to it in any way.
There is a difference between going from a GUI based OS to a hybrid GUI/console OS.
For both iOS and Android the only difference is where things live. The processes are still the same.
This is not the case with Windows and Linux. If you want to install something in Windows you go to a website and download an installer. For Linux, you find out if there is a package. If not you go to a website and see if there is an app image or zip file. You then need to know where to place the downloaded file, how to get it running (making it executable), knowing how to chmod and chown (it is better to have to do it like in Linux, but it is an extra step), and how to add it to your desktop (there is no right+click and add to desktop/create shortcut option in Arch based distros like there is on Windows). If there is a service component you may need to go into command line and systemctl to enable it.
Your comparison to iOS and Android is not really appropriate.
I don’t think I’ve ever followed that workflow to be honest. Except for when doing something niche and way above and beyond something a casual user would do.
Open the software center, search what you want. Click install. Done. I use the terminal to the same effect but that’s by preference. Installing packages as you described is not at all recommended… They won’t update with the system.
The “add to desktop” thing really depends on your Desktop Environment too. GNOME not really, KDE and most others yeah.
I’ve been using Linux for 20 years. The learning curve is still too steep for me.
I’m curious what setup you have to do?
I do some customization of KDE on my desktop, but for my laptops it’s always install and use without the need to setup anything.
I am using CachyOS. I was able to find my way around because I knew what I needed to look up due to existing server experience, but a first time user would likely struggle a lot more.
get excited for a random system update to boot you to a GRUB rescue console soon!
When was the last time you used Linux? And what distro was it? Your complaints are a decade out of date.
this exact situation happened about 3 months ago to my partner on a modern distro
You should give the name of the distro rather than just say modern. Ubuntu is “modern” and they broke the auto-updates for everyone some months ago. It’s more about stability than modernity
oh, so when the Linux fanboys come out and say “you should switch to Linux, it’s easy!” they actually mean learn the decades long history of countless distributions, fork infighting, and an untold amount of software and hardware compatibility baggage, THEN switching will be easy! silly of me to make such a mistake!
No? I just said it would be nicer if you precised the name of the distro when you have an issue. This way I’m less likely to recommand an unstable distro. That’s it.
You obviously can’t be expected to know what distro is stable or not, I don’t either
Just curious here… nvidia + kernel update and not using dkms?
yes, Nvidia, and who knows for the rest. i think it was Debian-based, maybe Mint. they went back to Win11 after barely a month because it was so rough, despite years of experience with Linux.
This is what I meant by my comment here.
Thats a hardware related annoyance that I’ve even seen on commercially distributed versions of Linux, and if it were set up correctly, you wouldn’t have even noticed (aside from a bunch of scrolling text during the next boot when the new kernel was loaded). I had a client where they couldn’t even get to the console of the server for this reason. Once set up correctly though, those updates have chugged away in the background… but I digress.
I’m assuming you (and your partner) have no trouble at all navigating around and using linux, it was the (poorly managed) update process that gave you headaches. I think that is a perfectly reasonable complaint.
of course the most popular graphics card manufacturer wouldn’t work out of the box on Linux! i would expect nothing less!
set up?
yep, I have used many linux distros for 20 years or so, and they are certainly much harder to migrate to than checks notes pressing two keys and running a command to get a local account.
good luck getting more than a few hours into a fresh linux install without needing to use a CLI, lol
yet you claim windows you need to also…checks notes run commands in cli
sure, because the comment i was replying to talked about local accounts, and that’s how you do that on some editions of Windows 11.
ok… but youre claiming that jumping through hoops to get Linux to work is bad, yet it’s ok on windows? makes no sense.
I’d personally rather have full control of my PC rather then some company telling me how to use my computer.
Why is it acceptable to use command line to setup Windows, but not Linux?
Bottom line is, if you’re not willing to put the minimal effort in, then you shouldn’t ever complain about Windows being shit.
you seem to have misinterpreted or misread this comment thread, sorry.
No, seems pretty clear to me.
Then literally immediately, in the same comment:
Good luck installing your pirated Windows without needing to use the CLI, lol.
quoting me and saying “don’t you see?” is not exactly demonstrating reading comprehension.
if you want to go on a crusade against CLIs, feel free, but leave me out. i think they’re great.
the comparison i replied to was whether it was easier to migrate to Linux vs setting up a local account, and any user is going to spend much more time migrating than running a single command.
I have nothing against, CLI, the point is that you’re complaining about needing to use CLI on Linux, even though you literally just said that you have to use it to get your pirated Windows to work.
I think they just wanna troll but no one’s taking the bait and all providing quality responses explaining why they are a bit misinformed/ignorant.
I use the terminal on my dev machine, but that’s because of what I do. Never opened the terminal on my laptops.
I’ve installed Ubuntu and fedora workstation on 5 machines in the past 6 months. Not a single install required using the terminal even once. A couple of those installs were on sketchy hardware and everything still just worked.
Meanwhile I installed win11 on a new machine a couple of weeks ago and it had missing drivers on install, trouble activating, and the login screen switched to Chinese characters after a few reboots (it is a known bug).
/shrug
🤓☝️yesh’ but, did you consider that uh… checks notes hmm… Linux difficult?
/s
How do you run that command you mentioned? Was it a few hours in or right at installation and login?
Look, we are all trying to figure out who did this, ok?