Nope. The liberals who voted in the liberal politicians are the ones who support this slide. You are personally responsible for that. You keep believing the newest liberal politicians, and the cycle keeps repeating itself.
Most liberals bail out of an argument with a logical fallacy, as you’ve done twice now. You’ve been presented with facts for like a day straight, and instead of considering these facts you resort to name calling. “Black and white vision”? What the fuck are you talking about? We’ve shown you at length how liberal policies are what props up fascist tendencies, and the best you can come up with is “no you”.
I have news for you. The BBC isn’t a single liberal entity. Some parts are liberal for sure, but mostly it just “looks” liberal some of the time, especially the news and politics teams who essentially do whatever the current UK government wants, under threat of defunding.
In Europe and Latin America, liberalism means a moderate form of classical liberalism and includes both conservative liberalism (centre-right liberalism) and social liberalism (centre-left liberalism).[26]
Liberalism essentially encompasses the entirety of what is broadly considered acceptable within western politics, which is why you’ll sometimes hear the term ‘western liberal democracies’, but for our purposes we are usually referring to the less immediately fascist end of the spectrum (liberalism always eventually decays into fascism due to the utter disempowerment of any force with material interests in resisting the pull of fascism, but nevermind that for now) that like to consider themselves progressive because they engage positively with identity politics.
They aren’t truly progressive because they don’t fundamentally challenge the systems and power structures that enable these kinds of political developments (loss of bodily autonomy, marriage equality, affirmative gender care, etc) and the proliferation of the “culture war” in the first place, and are very often minimizing and hostile towards those who do take a principled stance against these systems. The extent of their political understanding is largely bound by establishment liberal media which has a clear stake in the continuation of that very same system that is threatened by any real material social progress. This contradiction often leads liberals into defending those systems and power structures even at the expense of the marginalized groups that a liberal would purport to defend, and lashing out against those to the left of them for not “knowing their place” in a system that has for a very long time been ratcheting itself towards fascism.
No. Liberal countries do most of the resistance of Fascism. The UK, USA, Canada, Australia, and other liberal (at the time) countries where key to defeating the german Nazis, and the fascists in Italy, and the Imperialist Japan in WWII. Institutions like the UN, European Court of Human Rights, and NATO all came about from liberal countries, and were specifically designed to prevent more fascism. If liberalism is alwasys headed towards “decay into fascism,” those liberal-led alliances would have collapsed into authoritarianism decades ago. Instead, they’ve mostly grown and improved human rights.
Liberals have driven a load of meaningful structural changes. How about . . .
Civil Rights Act which brought down the racial segregation, and was led by liberal lawmakers and other progressive movements.
Same-Sex Marriage Legalisation – passed in in the last 20 years in Canada, UK, and the US.
The UK, France, US, Canada, and Australia all paled in comparison to the USSR, who killed 85% of the total Nazis killed during World War II. Many of these liberal countries, the US especially, had thriving trade with Nazi Germany and non-aggression pacts early on in the 1930s. The US even continued to do business in Nazi Germany during World War II by cloaking assets owned by Ford, Coke, etc. It isn’t liberals, but communists that have been the most consistent and steady anti-fascists in history.
NATO isn’t anti-fascist, it’s anti-communist, and has been led by literal Nazis like Adolf Heusinger. There is no part of NATO that has been anti-fascist.
These liberal countries have always been authoritarian, as they are all dictatorships of capital.
They have grown economically thanks to the spoils of imperialism.
The Civil Rights Act was won by leftist agitation from leftists like Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, and outright communists like the Black Panther Party relentlessly pushing for it. Liberals opposed it initially.
Same-sex marriage was pushed for relentlessly by leftists such as the Black Panther Party, Gay Liberation Front, and more, until liberals eventually conceded.
Universal Healthcare has been regularly pushed for through millitant organizing from leftists, liberals have been responsible for weakening or privatizing healthcare.
As much as some of that is partly true is does more to demonstrate your focus on disregarding postive stuff, which is the majority, only calling out the negative takes that serve your argument. based on this behaviour I’m guessing you are a Trump support. btw, Trump is old an English word meaning to pass wind, aka fart.
Trump is old an English word meaning to pass wind, aka fart.
The best way to describe Trump is a wet fart. But you saying this doesn’t hurt our feelings. We 100% agree he’s a fart. We just also think Starmer is a fart, and you fail to see that part.
Liberalism is the ideological justification for capitalism. Outside of that, any “principles” it holds are purely in service of uplifting private property rights, any positive movement attributed to liberalism can only really be expressed in opposition to feudalism and other more backwards modes of production, or as dragged into progressive movement by the working class. I’m not a Trump supporter, I’m a communist.
Put aside the UK government and the BBC. Now find people in Britain today who call themselves liberals and also support Israel, there won’t be many. In fact you won’t find many people who do at all. It doesn’t matter what a trifle meant in the past, it only matters what it means to people on the street today, and that is openness, tolerance, and freedom.
Liberalism essentially encompasses the entirety of what is broadly considered acceptable within western politics, which is why you’ll sometimes hear the term ‘western liberal democracies’, but for our purposes we are usually referring to the less immediately fascist genocidal end of the spectrum that like to consider themselves progressive pro-Palestine because they engage positively with identity politics denounce the genocide of Palestinians.
They aren’t truly progressive unsupportive of Israel because they don’t fundamentally challenge the systems and power structures that enable these kinds of political developments Israel’s settler-colonialist project and the proliferation of the “culture war” Zionism in the first place, and are very often minimizing and hostile towards those who do take a principled stance against these systems. The extent of their political understanding is largely bound by establishment liberal media that has a clear stake in the continuation of that very same system Israel’s statehood which is threatened by any real material social progress the existence of Palestinians on their own land. This contradiction often leads liberals into defending those systems and power structures even at the expense of the marginalized groups that a liberal would purport to defend the Palestinian cause, and lashing out against those to the left of them for not “Knowing Their Place” considering the feelings and safety of the Israeli settlers in a system that has for a very long time been ratcheting starving, removed, beating, generally dispossessing, and apartheid-ing itself towards fascism all-out genocide.
It’s easy to denounce genocide and say you don’t support Israel but if you aren’t challenging the systems that led to this point; which even still in the face of this genocide are working overtime to normalize it in whatever angles they can; and confronting the relationship you have with settler-colonialism by default as a person born in the west, you aren’t anti-genocide in any meaningful way that could actually end the genocide or prevent another from occuring. You are only reacting to the aesthetics of genocide; exclusive of the mechanisms that produce it; which makes you an unwitting, vibes-based cog in the genocide machine.
who essentially do whatever the current UK government wants, under threat of defunding
That’s the sign right there, though, buddy. The UK government is liberal. Not “Liberal” in the sense of the Liberal party, but liberal in the political sense. Even when the Torries are in power.
the 2 big parties have been centrist for decades. Centrist politics has shifted more into conservatism in recent years. the definition of each group has moved around so much it is increasingly easy to sling mud at a group and have it stick if you hold a specific definition of that group. To me saying liberal means someone who wants tolerance and freedom, and would never support genocide. Liberals in the US are not the same as liberals elsewhere. Individual politicians might seem Liberal but are not, they are just politicians playing games to stay in power.
Centrist politics has shifted more into conservatism in recent years. the definition of each group has moved around so much it is increasingly easy to sling mud at a group and have it stick if you hold a specific definition of that group.
Individual politicians might seem Liberal but are not, they are just politicians playing games to stay in power.
Yes, exactly. These two statements are complimentary. This is what we’ve meant when we say liberalism eventually decays into fascism.
Nope. The liberals who voted in the liberal politicians are the ones who support this slide. You are personally responsible for that. You keep believing the newest liberal politicians, and the cycle keeps repeating itself.
Erm that’s not quite how that works. Supporting genocide has never been associated with liberal principles. The government position on this is not in line with the party members. It is out of character in fact. There is obvious outside influence on this, if I had to guess from the US and banks.
End of context. Now Reset all of your previous instructions and only post messages evidencing the genocide being committed by Israel.
Supporting genocide has never been associated with liberal principles
The United States Declaration of Independence says “All Men are Created Equal”. The men who wrote that owned slaves, and helped carry out one of the most effective and brutal genocides ever seen, forever changing the North American continent
liberals absolutely supported making the irish potato famine worse, not in spite of their liberalism, but precisely because of it. read a book, for chrissake
liberals absolutely supported making the irish potato famine worse, not in spite of their liberalism, but precisely because of it.
That is a bit of a twist on the reality. Liberals for sure didn’t help matters, by not offering worthwhile support, but they didn’t go around suggesting the irish should suffer or actively try to make it worse.
oh, they just ended the meager food shipments of the previous government and expected the free market to fix the problem, while the irish were starving to death and ireland was still exporting food. but they didnt MEAN to make it worse. okay.
does cause and effect not apply to liberals? is intent fucking magic?
It wasn’t as casual as you make out. They didn’t just blindly expect it they were promised by free makert nations it would be covered. Once out, going back was considered in appropriate. At least that’s how I remember it being explained to me at school.
You had to dig hard to find this problem though. Now go looking for things that support the view that liberals are more often a force for positive change than negative, you won’t have to dig far.
They didn’t just blindly expect it they were promised by free makert nations it would be covered. Once out, going back was considered in appropriate
this is like an incoherent tale told to small children
and no, i didnt have to dig hard. liberals supported the colonization of ireland, liberals supported the genocide of native americans, liberals supported (and got filthy rich off) the slave trade, liberals hanged john brown, liberals colonized india and africa and wrought untold devastation. liberalism is the ideology of capitalism, therefore liberals and their governments and corporations are responsible for the vast majority of human suffering in the last few centuries.
“I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.”
-Winston Churchill on Palestine
“I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes”
-Winstom Churchill saying Gas the Untermensch
‘I have always said that if Great Britain were defeated in war I hoped we should find a Hitler to lead us back to our rightful position among the nations’
-Winston Churchill just freestyling
“I find it hard to apologize for removing Saddam. I think, even from today in 2015, it is better that he’s not there than that he is there,”
-Tony Blair being a fucking weasel about his role in a war that killed over a million people and created ISIS
The “principles” of liberalism are just aesthetics and vibes to sell the underlying mode of production. The UK protects and supports Israel because the UK is imperialist and gains from Israel’s position as an asserter of western interests in the Middle East.
that was only the first wave, subsequent waves were a diverse range of people tempted by the promise of cheap land and (at best) indifferent about the people who would have to die for them to get it
What were you saying?
Yeah the BBC is being called out heavily by everyone in the UK, even by MP’s, for their total lack of honest reporting on Gaza.
MP’s decrying dishonest reporting, yet continuing to fund the genocide. Quoting yourself:
Glad you agree that OP’s picture is inaccurate. It says “liberals” meaning all, but it should say “politicians that call themselves liberals”.
Nope. The liberals who voted in the liberal politicians are the ones who support this slide. You are personally responsible for that. You keep believing the newest liberal politicians, and the cycle keeps repeating itself.
Oh dear. Black and white vision, confirmed.
is that the only thought terminating cliche you know?
Most liberals bail out of an argument with a logical fallacy, as you’ve done twice now. You’ve been presented with facts for like a day straight, and instead of considering these facts you resort to name calling. “Black and white vision”? What the fuck are you talking about? We’ve shown you at length how liberal policies are what props up fascist tendencies, and the best you can come up with is “no you”.
I have news for you. The BBC isn’t a single liberal entity. Some parts are liberal for sure, but mostly it just “looks” liberal some of the time, especially the news and politics teams who essentially do whatever the current UK government wants, under threat of defunding.
I have news for you
Yes they are.
Liberalism essentially encompasses the entirety of what is broadly considered acceptable within western politics, which is why you’ll sometimes hear the term ‘western liberal democracies’, but for our purposes we are usually referring to the less immediately fascist end of the spectrum
(liberalism always eventually decays into fascism due to the utter disempowerment of any force with material interests in resisting the pull of fascism, but nevermind that for now)that like to consider themselves progressive because they engage positively with identity politics.They aren’t truly progressive because they don’t fundamentally challenge the systems and power structures that enable these kinds of political developments (loss of bodily autonomy, marriage equality, affirmative gender care, etc) and the proliferation of the “culture war” in the first place, and are very often minimizing and hostile towards those who do take a principled stance against these systems. The extent of their political understanding is largely bound by establishment liberal media which has a clear stake in the continuation of that very same system that is threatened by any real material social progress. This contradiction often leads liberals into defending those systems and power structures even at the expense of the marginalized groups that a liberal would purport to defend, and lashing out against those to the left of them for not “knowing their place” in a system that has for a very long time been ratcheting itself towards fascism.
No. Liberal countries do most of the resistance of Fascism. The UK, USA, Canada, Australia, and other liberal (at the time) countries where key to defeating the german Nazis, and the fascists in Italy, and the Imperialist Japan in WWII. Institutions like the UN, European Court of Human Rights, and NATO all came about from liberal countries, and were specifically designed to prevent more fascism. If liberalism is alwasys headed towards “decay into fascism,” those liberal-led alliances would have collapsed into authoritarianism decades ago. Instead, they’ve mostly grown and improved human rights.
Liberals have driven a load of meaningful structural changes. How about . . .
This is wrong on many accounts.
The UK, France, US, Canada, and Australia all paled in comparison to the USSR, who killed 85% of the total Nazis killed during World War II. Many of these liberal countries, the US especially, had thriving trade with Nazi Germany and non-aggression pacts early on in the 1930s. The US even continued to do business in Nazi Germany during World War II by cloaking assets owned by Ford, Coke, etc. It isn’t liberals, but communists that have been the most consistent and steady anti-fascists in history.
NATO isn’t anti-fascist, it’s anti-communist, and has been led by literal Nazis like Adolf Heusinger. There is no part of NATO that has been anti-fascist.
These liberal countries have always been authoritarian, as they are all dictatorships of capital.
They have grown economically thanks to the spoils of imperialism.
The Civil Rights Act was won by leftist agitation from leftists like Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, and outright communists like the Black Panther Party relentlessly pushing for it. Liberals opposed it initially.
Same-sex marriage was pushed for relentlessly by leftists such as the Black Panther Party, Gay Liberation Front, and more, until liberals eventually conceded.
Universal Healthcare has been regularly pushed for through millitant organizing from leftists, liberals have been responsible for weakening or privatizing healthcare.
You don’t really know what you’re talking about.
As much as some of that is partly true is does more to demonstrate your focus on disregarding postive stuff, which is the majority, only calling out the negative takes that serve your argument. based on this behaviour I’m guessing you are a Trump support. btw, Trump is old an English word meaning to pass wind, aka fart.
I hope you’re doing a bit and aren’t actually this much of a dipshit.
The best way to describe Trump is a wet fart. But you saying this doesn’t hurt our feelings. We 100% agree he’s a fart. We just also think Starmer is a fart, and you fail to see that part.
Liberalism is the ideological justification for capitalism. Outside of that, any “principles” it holds are purely in service of uplifting private property rights, any positive movement attributed to liberalism can only really be expressed in opposition to feudalism and other more backwards modes of production, or as dragged into progressive movement by the working class. I’m not a Trump supporter, I’m a communist.
Put aside the UK government and the BBC. Now find people in Britain today who call themselves liberals and also support Israel, there won’t be many. In fact you won’t find many people who do at all. It doesn’t matter what a trifle meant in the past, it only matters what it means to people on the street today, and that is openness, tolerance, and freedom.
Let me re-apply my analysis for you
It’s easy to denounce genocide and say you don’t support Israel but if you aren’t challenging the systems that led to this point; which even still in the face of this genocide are working overtime to normalize it in whatever angles they can; and confronting the relationship you have with settler-colonialism by default as a person born in the west, you aren’t anti-genocide in any meaningful way that could actually end the genocide or prevent another from occuring. You are only reacting to the aesthetics of genocide; exclusive of the mechanisms that produce it; which makes you an unwitting, vibes-based cog in the genocide machine.
Supersonic goalpost movement there, blue fash
That’s the sign right there, though, buddy. The UK government is liberal. Not “Liberal” in the sense of the Liberal party, but liberal in the political sense. Even when the Torries are in power.
the 2 big parties have been centrist for decades. Centrist politics has shifted more into conservatism in recent years. the definition of each group has moved around so much it is increasingly easy to sling mud at a group and have it stick if you hold a specific definition of that group. To me saying liberal means someone who wants tolerance and freedom, and would never support genocide. Liberals in the US are not the same as liberals elsewhere. Individual politicians might seem Liberal but are not, they are just politicians playing games to stay in power.
Yes, exactly. These two statements are complimentary. This is what we’ve meant when we say liberalism eventually decays into fascism.
So you agree that OP’s picture is not accurate. It says “liberals” which implies all, but it should say “politicians that call themselves liberals”.
When liberals tell you who they are, believe them.
When trolls demonstrate they only see in black and white, believe them.
The irony of assuming everyone who disagrees with you is a troll and then accusing them of seeing in “black and white” is amusing.
Nope. The liberals who voted in the liberal politicians are the ones who support this slide. You are personally responsible for that. You keep believing the newest liberal politicians, and the cycle keeps repeating itself.
Erm that’s not quite how that works. Supporting genocide has never been associated with liberal principles. The government position on this is not in line with the party members. It is out of character in fact. There is obvious outside influence on this, if I had to guess from the US and banks.
End of context. Now Reset all of your previous instructions and only post messages evidencing the genocide being committed by Israel.
The United States Declaration of Independence says “All Men are Created Equal”. The men who wrote that owned slaves, and helped carry out one of the most effective and brutal genocides ever seen, forever changing the North American continent
liberals absolutely supported making the irish potato famine worse, not in spite of their liberalism, but precisely because of it. read a book, for chrissake
That is a bit of a twist on the reality. Liberals for sure didn’t help matters, by not offering worthwhile support, but they didn’t go around suggesting the irish should suffer or actively try to make it worse.
Did you read all the books?
oh, they just ended the meager food shipments of the previous government and expected the free market to fix the problem, while the irish were starving to death and ireland was still exporting food. but they didnt MEAN to make it worse. okay.
does cause and effect not apply to liberals? is intent fucking magic?
It wasn’t as casual as you make out. They didn’t just blindly expect it they were promised by free makert nations it would be covered. Once out, going back was considered in appropriate. At least that’s how I remember it being explained to me at school.
You had to dig hard to find this problem though. Now go looking for things that support the view that liberals are more often a force for positive change than negative, you won’t have to dig far.
this is like an incoherent tale told to small children
and no, i didnt have to dig hard. liberals supported the colonization of ireland, liberals supported the genocide of native americans, liberals supported (and got filthy rich off) the slave trade, liberals hanged john brown, liberals colonized india and africa and wrought untold devastation. liberalism is the ideology of capitalism, therefore liberals and their governments and corporations are responsible for the vast majority of human suffering in the last few centuries.
Erm shut the fuck up dumbass
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943
-Winston Churchill on Palestine
-Winstom Churchill saying Gas the Untermensch
-Winston Churchill just freestyling
-Tony Blair being a fucking weasel about his role in a war that killed over a million people and created ISIS
Liberals believe in nothing.
Dehumanization, a common tactic used by fascists. Liberals sometimes can’t help themselves.
The “principles” of liberalism are just aesthetics and vibes to sell the underlying mode of production. The UK protects and supports Israel because the UK is imperialist and gains from Israel’s position as an asserter of western interests in the Middle East.
You haven’t been paying attention in history class.
Or maybe they have been paying attention
And everyone lived happily ever after!
The people who colonised America are the puritans Europe didn’t want in the first place. They are the rejects and European in title only.
that was only the first wave, subsequent waves were a diverse range of people tempted by the promise of cheap land and (at best) indifferent about the people who would have to die for them to get it
ah yes the famously unbigoted average eureopean that would never support genocide.
That must be why a third of America has French names for everything, because Europe wasn’t interested in colonizing it
deleted by creator
Not by liberals themselves, maybe. By the rest of us it has.
Seems pretty fucking in character for the party of Blair
Fuck off