They really need to stop calling it a tip. It’s a bid for service.
Drivers shouldn’t be allowed to see the tip amount prior to delivery completion. That, or tipping shouldn’t be allowed until after completion. I hate this more recent model of tipping before receiving service. Because as you said, it’s a bid for service, not an acknowledgement of good service.
Flip it around - why would you work a job, any job, where you don’t know your pay until after the work is done?
“Tipping” is rich-people speak for shifting the expense (and blame) to the customer.
They already know the pay. If the pay isn’t enough without the tip, then maybe they should consider getting a different job.
You realize that gig economy is the neoliberal slang for a poverty class work, but without the rights of workers, right?
So you’re criticizing people who are forced by the system in which we live, to be ordered around by a fucking algorithm, and then take abuse from people who have enough money to NOT work in the gig economy, but no where near enough to actually own the servant class they get off on abusing.
You realize that the gig economy is not my responsibility, right? I’m not criticizing the workers for being underpaid. I’m criticizing the exploiters for underpaying their workers. If you can’t pay your workers enough, that is not my fault. You are not entitled to exploit anyone for your personal gain.
If the pay isn’t enough without the tip, then maybe they should consider getting a different job.
I’m not criticizing the workers for being underpaid.
Study: When questioned about continuing to work for poverty wages, gig workers across the nation respond with resounding “guess I just didn’t think about it because I’m so goddamned stupid” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
The first statement was meant as in these delivery services don’t deserve to keep their workers. They should instead look for a better job that will pay them properly. But that’s what these delivery services do…prey on the vulnerable that are desperate which is why there should be laws protecting them.
I agree with you completely but at the same time I have disdain for gig workers because they all seem to operate under an entirely different set of traffic laws and social conventions. At least where I live.
Wdym by social conventions?
I see them acting rudely to restaurant staff and grocery store staff often.
The pay is about $2 per order, regardless of mileage. Dashers can typically complete 2-3 orders per hour, and pay for their own fuel. The base pay is absolutely not worth it.
They are paid approximately $4 to $6 per hour, and yet some people are still defending the practice and asking customers to pay extra on top of the food and the $10+ delivery charge…
Given their compensation model, all I can say is that if you are not willing to tip, and/or you are not willing to tip ahead of time, you absolutely should not use the service at all.
And I don’t, specifically for that exact reason.
Practically nobody does uber as their main job, they do it because they either want/need extra money, or are struggling to survive at all. I know uberers, none of them would choose the job, but they can’t find other work. There’s an intentional lack of employment, in my country at least, to keep the workers moving forward; “Do for us, or end up like those people”.
If your business requires you to exploit your workers in order to make a profit, then your business doesn’t deserve to exist. Making excuses for the exploiters changes nothing.
If the business doesn’t deserve to exist, why do customers keep supporting them? Why is the onus only on the workers to suffer?
That’s actually an excellent question. You should look into why people who work for America’s largest employer can only afford to shop at Walmart, have little to no benefits, no job security, and often qualify for food stamps (which is American taxpayers subsidizing their salaries). The owners of America’s largest employer are worth like $140,000,000,000.
Hint: it’s coercion.
“Free” market doesnt really work without regulation, otherwise we shift towards current business models where you, the customer, often dont really have the choice.
Why are customers responsible for ensuring that workers get paid fairly? I’m looking for a service. If your service cannot exist without exploiting your workers, then it doesn’t deserve to exist. You are not entitled to exploit people for your own gain.
If you think tipping, a current necessity to ensure proper pay, is not something you should be doing why don’t you stop using food services which expect tipping?
They won’t stop underpaying because you don’t tip they’ll just blame the worker. The one who can’t quit, because there’s not alot of work around, and they need food for survival
A tip before service is not a tip. It’s coercion. Maybe we should consider adding regulation to this entire industry to ensure fair pay.
I’m all for ending tipping culture. And a tip before service may not be a tip, but as long as this is how it’s set up, it’s the current way we must do things.
Just like if you want someone to do some handy work for you, you can go on Craigslist and say “need someone to do ‘x’. Will pay $150” and workers who search on there for jobs will decide whether or not it’s worth it for them to do the job. This job just so happens to be giving you food or a ride.
Right, and if a company can’t pay their workers enough, then workers are not obligated to work there. It is not my responsibility to ensure your workers are paid fairly, regardless of how things are currently set up.
Ok, call your extra payment whatever name you want, and get the ball rolling on legislating new regulations to ensure fair pay. They deserve to get paid more, and when/if those regulations go through the drivers will have a better future.
That didn’t answer the question, though. We both agree that drivers deserve to get paid more, so why not open up your wallet and start paying them more now? Why wait months or years for legislation to go through to force you to pay more, when the power to make sure your driver is paid well is sitting in the palm of your hand today? Your individual act of tipping or not tipping will do nothing to address the system at large, but it will do everything to ensure your driver driver gets paid fairly for the labor they perform while they serve you.
Why is it my responsibility to ensure they’re paid fairly by me directly? It’s the employer’s responsibility to pay their workers fairly. If you can’t pay your workers fairly, why does your business deserve to exist?
In the UK (and a lot of Europe) tipping is completely optional. We only tip for exceptional service or if we’ve made the server’s life difficult. It’s an optional extra for the server.
At this point, it’s so endemic, in the US, that it likely needs to be fixed from the governmental level, but that doesn’t make it something that can’t be complained about.
American workers rights really scare me. Tipping being allowed to subsidise wages is awful, but so is the safety legislation, and child labour laws. We have issues in the UK obviously, but they’re relatively minor in comparison.
It’s only expected because consumers with a similar mentality keep supplying the bandaids to the business. That, and poor local and federal regulation.
take it up with the state you elected. If they allow you to work for a wage that’s not enough to live on, and you don’t get a different job - that’s a you problem not a customer problem.
It’s a poverty trap. Your choice often isn’t “get another job” or stay there. It’s do this job, and survive another month, or quit and be not be able to afford basic necessities (like rent, or food). Unfortunately, the job can leave you too mentally and/or physically exhausted to properly hunt or reskill for another job. It’s a catch 22 situation.
Interestingly, COVID actually helped a lot of people on that front. The government income support, and enforced rest let people stop, breathe and think. Many then went on to do exactly what you suggested. Unfortunately there’s always more to be drawn into the trap.
This doesn’t justify flaming customers because we won’t pay them extra for doing their job. Does it suck for them? Maybe. Do I work hard for my money and don’t want to hand it our to them? Yes.
Personally I tip 20% or more at most Restaurants. I draw the line at tipping before service as well. They aren’t even pretending anymore that it’s about service.
That said, I don’t use any Gig economy service; I don’t believe in their business models at all, and part of what you are saying is why. Workers shouldn’t be taking on the burden, companies should.
I do tip at some pre-service places that I’m a regular at, but I’ve run into some pretty ridiculous stores asking for tips where nothing warrants it. I try to be fair, but it is getting ridiculous.
One of the most ridiculous tipping related thing happened a couple of weeks ago. I was ordering some pantry items from an online store that shipped to me (shipping fee was separate, based on how much is purchased). They had a vinegar that I couldn’t find locally or online elsewhere, and since they are a small family business, I decided to order a few other things to support them even though all their prices were a bit higher than other places. When checking out, they asked for a 20-25% tip to help support their small family business. That just made me mad. Never going to shop from them again.
Yes that’s completely ridiculous. You’re helping their small business by shopping there in the first place.
Tips are no longer tips and companies have successfully forced us to pay their employees for them.
It’s not the customer’s fault. In addition to us paying their wages we have to trust some rando to do a good job with zero evidence they will.
If they don’t fulfill your expectations, you inform DoorDash. They hand out full refunds like candy.
That “rando” is not a DoorDash employee. You’re hiring a contractor through a broker, not asking a restaurant to send a waitress to your table.
The employee-waitress can’t refuse you service without getting herself fired, but a contractor-driver can tell you exactly where and how far to shove your bullshit offer.
I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. I realize they aren’t employees. That’s the root of the problem. They should be employees and paid by their employer. If they can’t run their business that way, then that clearly shows that it’s an exploitative and shitty business model that shouldn’t exist in the first place.
I do not appreciate Doordash offloading its responsibility of paying and “disciplining” its workers onto customers. Do you honestly have no problem with that?
They hand out refunds like candy.
That is assuming that I have the time and remember to do this, not to mention that I shouldn’t have to do it.
That’s the root of the problem. They should be employees and paid by their employer.
I strongly disagree. Employment is not a mutually beneficial relationship. Employment is an encumbrance on the worker, especially a non-union worker. As an employer, DoorDash can demand exclusivity. DoorDash would be allowed to add a non-compete clause, prohibiting employees from performing courier work on the side, or for competing platforms. I don’t want my working hours dictated to me on a schedule. I don’t want to have to negotiate time off or finding someone to cover my shift.
Employment would allow them to force drivers to take all “assignments”. I like being able to refuse service to a particular vendor or abusive customer. I don’t want to be forced to wait in the drive thru line for 45 minutes at a Taco Bell in a high-crime area.
Courier service is menial labor. When I look at other large businesses that utilize menial labor, I am not particularly struck by the equity of their employment agreements. I don’t see “employment” working out too well for the workers of Walmart, for example.
I do not appreciate Doordash offloading its responsibility of paying and “disciplining” its workers onto customers. Do you honestly have no problem with that?
No, I don’t have a problem with that. I think DoorDash retains too much control over pay and discipline of workers, and interferes too much between customers and workers.
DoorDash punishes workers for refusing orders, by downgrading their priority for higher paying offers. When a customer insists on placing a $3 offer for a 9-mile delivery, every driver in the area will reject it. That single shitty order results in every active driver having their “Acceptance Rate” stat lowered. DoorDash should not be giving customers this particular power over drivers. It is the customer who should be “punished” for making an offer so far below minimum wage.
Wow, what a bad set of takes.
You want Doordash to get the benefits of a company, but not the responsibilities of one. Because: libertarianism, or something
There’s nothing to flip, gratuity and wages should be separate things. And minimum, standard living wages should be paid.
The point of tipping (to the tipper) is to show appreciation for the quality of service you received. If service is shit, you don’t get tipped as much.
Tipping before you get the service means quality of service plays no part in the transaction.
America’s view that tipping is normal needs to change.
How about an adequate wage instead, like the rest of the developed world?
Well no, tipping is how you show your appreciation for a service. You are bring selfish if you don’t at least tip a minimal amount.
A reasonable required base level of pay for service is necessary before a tip is showing appreciation.
There is a base level of pay. That doesn’t mean you get to hate the poor person who is stuck serving you. You should appreciate what others do for you.
Where did you get the idea that wanting reasonable wages before tips means I hate servers?
Learn to read.
Please tip your plumber, i mean you do appreciate their work dont you?
15% would be fair wouldnt it?
You should tip anyone or dont you appreciate what they do for you? What? You already paid them? But you didnt yet appreciate them yet! How could you!The way this comment section is going I’d expect them to beet the plummer.
My sons a plumber and he just got $100 tip for doing a job, but it was right before Christmas and the client was really rich. I don’t condone tipping but if I do tip it’s usually in cash
Drivers can’t see the tip, but they are given an estimated payout (of the number presented is different from the estimate, it’ll always pay higher than the estimate) for each order.
If this wasn’t the case, there wouldn’t be any drivers. Drivers are contractors and DoorDash bids orders out until someone accepts it. No contractor in their right mind will accept a job not knowing how much it’ll pay.
If tipping weren’t allowed until after delivery, most people wouldn’t tip. You have the option to raise or lower your tip already, but have you ever gone in there and changed your tip after you received your order? Most people don’t. In the 6 or so months I was delivering, I only had one tip adjusted.
Do you get your tip back too if the driver steals your food? Here we have Rappi that also asks for tip before the delivery so I never gave it out.
I did once because the driver completely ignored my delivery instructions and I called to cancel the tip. They refunded it immediately.
Our building has a problem with theft, which I noted in my instructions, and they left the order in the lobby despite my clear warning to the contrary.
Yes you do.
I’ve tipped a ton and gotten very cold food numerous times. I absolutely agree, and really hate this model.
No fuck you. I’m not gonna sit around taking all the shitty orders that just ruin my car and waste my time for $3 just because you think I should have a gambling problem for your benefit.
Also they already tried that. Everyone quit except the dependent people who just got ruined.
Then you’re part of the problem, I guess.
No, the problem is that you want what you won’t pay for. Nobody else is gonna have a problem not giving it to you. Your problem is your own.
You aren’t entitled to gratuity, despite seeming like a very entitled person. You present yourself like a charity case.
I’ve got plenty of customers who pay my price. It’s not a matter of entitlement. You want a bootstrapped market. I take the free market.
In your other comments you complain about being in debt, with a broken car, because of the job. Sounds like you’ve got it figured out and are definitely on top in the situation, I’ll leave you to it.
I’m really starting to feel like some of the people in threads like this who don’t get this simple concept you stated are just experiencing cognitive dissonance about the fact that they themselves are happy to exploit the workers because they don’t want to tip. (If I’m working for myself, and you hire me to perform a service, then I am your worker. 🤣 Fuck you, pay me.)
Stop using DoorDash and other delivery services. They’re a huge scam and you end up paying double for cold food that someone might have tampered with.
This. They are predatory to their drivers, their customers, and the restaurants they almost blackmail into using them. Awful awful company.
The trouble is in England if you don’t use deliveroo or whatever, the only food you can get on takeaway (delivered or collection) is kebabs or pizza. The main restaurants tend not to bother with their own takeaway.
Realistically, how far are you from the shops? And would it 1. Take any longer for you to just walk there to pick it up? 2. Do you often NEED to save the extra time it takes to get there and back?
If the answers to both are mostly no, then just don’t use delivery and call ahead and get pickup instead. Going for a walk is great!
I used to live 25-30 minute round trip from the shops, still never ordered delivery because it’s not any faster (usually slower), not sure why people are willing to pay extra for it, and screw over the restaurants in the process.
Would actually like to know other’s point of view on this.
Where I live it’s about £2 more on a order of any cost. That’s not even close to being double, especially with a minimum spend of £10
You should check the price of the food on the DD menu isn’t also higher than the price on the regular menu. It may be a 2$ fee, but I’ve also seen higher per item prices.
Yeah, Uber eats is about 20% more expensive per item on the menu, though I am sure it varies.
The restaurant probably sets that price. Not only do delivery services ask for fees and tips from you, the customer, they will also take 20% of the restaurant’s earnings for using their delivery services. Hence why some restaurants still choose to be on the app for visibility but have higher prices and/or separate delivery and pickup services that they set at normal prices and prefer the customer use instead.
Learned this when I was working for a delivery start up that operated locally and didn’t charge such a fee.
Makes sense. I don’t blame them. Uber is a leech. A super convenient leech.
Still not even close to double
Indian take out for my wife costs about $44.
The same items ordered on the delivery apps comes out to about $56 and then after fees and tips is roughly $80.
I wish these companies were only $2 more expensive than just going to the restaurant.
Holy shit America is so different
Well hooray for you? DD and GrubHub fees easily double anything I order.
Turns out some places are different. Weird, right?
Are you ordering directly from the restaurants?
No. Clearly deliveroo in UK is wildly different to American delivery services.
My experience using DoorDash and Uber eats is in the 2x range for costs. When I switch to pick up or order directly, it’s always about half the cost.
This clearly differs wildly between countries. It’s just not this way at all on europe
Yeah there’s comments are from the US it seems where there lack of regulations have resulted in an… advanced pricing structure. To put it mildly.
I’m just glad I don’t have to live in that country, judging by the quantity of downvotes theyre very upset about this discrepancy
Thanks for the input, my trusted door dash corporate friend.
Considering I used GBP and door dash is not used in the country which has GBP as it’s primarily currency. You can live safe that I’m not a current door dash employee looking to retain angry American customers
It does, but the thinking here is that the dasher basically loses money taking no tip orders. Which in my Nordic mind is a fucked up business model. A living wage should be the minimum requirement.
Look at the socialist over here guys, over here in America we let our children go without lunch if they can’t afford it. How else will they learn that they need to be a productive member of society?
Frankly, I wouldn’t want to live under some authoritarian healthcare system that no longer allowed me the freedom to weigh my options between crippling debt and death… Variety is the spice of life!
That’s the true freedom we get to have. I hear in the UK and Canada they sometimes have to wait in line! Here I get prompt care with my hundreds of thousands of dollars I pay. Now that’s service.
Don’t have to wait in line if you can’t afford to go in the first place
Taps head
True freedom right there!
God bless America
That’s right, and the poor grades and stunted growth they’ll experience as a result of that hunger will build character.
Frankly, I wouldn’t want to live under some authoritarian healthcare system that no longer allowed me the freedom to weigh my options between crippling debt and death… Variety is the spice of life!
It’s worse. They aren’t employees. They are independent contractors who in many cases assume all liability and have to pay their own payroll taxes. Most aren’t reporting it to their insurance company, much less thinking about retirement and healthcare. It only really works as a temporary side gig.
Under EU-Law you might not fall under independent contractor because most of the income and how you do your job is dictated by a single company.
You automatically fall under regulations for employers and get those protections too. Company that try to do this have to tread very carefully not to fall into that.I was speaking for Americans. Companies like Door Dash are practically experiments in avoiding labor laws .
Get a minimum amount of compensation for doing a job? Do you hear yourself? That’s madness!
A fine idea. Sadly, no one in that restaurant is being paid a living wage. It ain’t just the drivers.
This entire tipping thing is terrible - including for dashers themselves.
It means dashers income heavily relies on strangers being kind enough to leave some extra.
It means customers are gonna feel bad for not paying more than their order amount (and they probably will pay the tip)
It means company can employ slave labor for extremely low pay and still have people willing to do this.
Tipping benefits only one party - the companies. We need to stop it.
correct on all parts, it pits dasher against customers. also these companies are still not profitable. that should tell you something.
the truth is that the business model just doesn’t work. if you want to pay drivers actual living wages, delivery fees would have to be more than 20 dollars for each order.
Stop patronizing restaurants where they don’t pay their staff a livable wage. Stop using delivery apps that don’t pay their drivers a livable wage.
This predatory employers are the problem. Stop rewarding them with your business.
Stop patronizing restaurants where they don’t pay their staff a livable wage.
In most parts of the US, that’s all of them. This position is de facto “never eat out or order takeout”. I’m not sure that’s entirely realistic.
So cook, by taking part in the exploitative system, not only are you contributing to it, but by not tipping on top of that the only person you’re hurting is the worker. That worker has never even met the CEO, the CEO doesn’t give two shits that while he got his money the guy on the bottom got stiffed. Yes it’s inconvenient, but if you have grandiose ideas about how the entire system should change, you should take part in said change not by exploiting that worker yourself but by boycotting the whole business; or by ordering, tipping, and trying to poach them for employment at your business; or by opening your own spot and paying fairly to set an example and provide others like you a place to buy guilt free; something other than “fuck you for bringing me food I hope you starve or have to live in a tent, tell your boss to pay you better I’m sure he won’t just find a ‘quieter’ employee like he did to all the others.”
I don’t use door dash much but I’m pretty in Canada at least there is a mandatory tip . At least there is with skip the dishes that’s what I usually use .
If it’s mandatory it’s not a tip, it’s a fee, which is perfectly fine and reasonable for a home delivery service but it’s not a tip.
I agree. But he’s also wrong. Tip is not mandatory. If you want you food in a reasonable time frame however, it’s a good idea.
The purpose of tips has gone away in the US. You are supposed to tip after the delivery for a good service. Now you have to “tip” for a good service.
You have to pay their wages instead of the giant company that’s partially doing so already
If you have to tip to get someone to provide a service your already paying for then that is a bribe.
Call it a bribe then. For regular customers there is little difference.
Modern extortion.
Yes, vastly underpaid workers are stealing your money.
The point is that the company employing gig economy workers expects us to pay their wages and for our food.
expects us to pay their wages and for our food.
well, yes. look, I’m not a fan of the exploitative “gig economy” either, but you are paying for two things that won’t ever be offered for free to you: (1) food to be prepared for you, and (2) the service of someone to transport it on your behalf. for the prior you pay the menu price. for the latter you pay service fees and tips. if you don’t want to pay extra (atop menu prices) to have someone bring you the food, don’t ask someone to bring you food for money.
the scummy part is not that you’re being made to pay for the services you’re requesting, it’s that the services sometimes lie about how the workers are being paid and how much the service actually costs by wrapping up the worker’s base pay (essentially) as a “tip”. yes. shitty.
but i’m not sure how this differs much from, say conventional non-gig “free” pizza delivery wherein the cost to the business of(poorly) paying drivers is recouped by elevated menu prices and there is still an expectation on the customer to tip the driver to make it sufficiently worthwhile for them.
if services are taking the tips for themselves when people assume it goes to the driver, that’s bad. that’s happened, yes. and fuck the service for doing it. bad pizza joints have done the same thing to drivers for years when they get credit card tips or tips online, too. that doesn’t make the “conventional pizza delivery economy” as a whole evil, it just makes those unethical companies assholes that should be avoided.
underpaid
Seems like whoever’s underpaying them is the culprit, huh?
Yes, and the solution is to pay the business their money but stiff the worker so he quits and the business can extort some other poor sap down on his luck, that’ll teach those rich bastards who never knew the delivery guy existed to begin with! Definitely don’t change your habits and instead cook, pick up, or only order from places that do pay fairly, because that would inconvenience you, and strong opinions are only fun if they burden someone innocent who isn’t you!
The solution is to not work for people that won’t even pay minimum wage.
I agree, of course if everyone quit like I did because otherwise I couldn’t afford both rent AND food, you wouldn’t be able to order your precious delivery. Thankfully for you there is a never ending supply of poor saps willing to be exploited by the business and you so they just replaced me with some other guy you can stiff and look down upon who gets paid even less base pay than I did! You really helped!
I really did, if it made even one person get out of being exploited like that. It’s not my responsibility to pay their wages.
Stop fucking using these extortion apps. Drive your lazy ass to the shit food station yourself.
My friend would order food from a different shop that had delivery instead of walking across the fucking street to the place that quite literally was across the street. I could see it from my bedroom window.
Some people will do anything to avoid having to go out and while i’m very similar, I think like 3-4 blocks is my limit as far as walking. 5 mins for driving, any more and I’m just ordering something lol
Tbh I’ll order pizza from the good shop 10min away before I order from the shithole 2min away. The difference? “Good food.”
I always pick up, but still this could be understandable.
Why do you just assume everyone can drive? Plenty of people either don’t have a license or don’t have a car.
“I’m going to the shit food station, you want anything?”
I’ve used these apps – when I was quarantining because I had Covid, wasn’t in a state to drive, and needed food.
I don’t use them anymore, but these types of apps can fill a “need”.
There are times these apps make sense. I crashed my motorcycle doing an ubereats delivery and broke my collarbone, and then used the service myself a bunch of times while healing. Ironic, but that’s life.
Side note for the people wondering what happens when you don’t tip upfront (on UE at least): Prospective drivers see an offer of $4-6 for a job that will take them 45 minutes and say “fuck that” while they slam the ‘no’ button. This will go on for a while until the system is able to find another order on the way to combine it with, or someone accepts it anyway.
Why? Who’s holding a gun to the head of these drivers and forcing them to work for this gig? The onus isn’t on the customers, it’s on the drivers.
My guess is either their landlord, their hospital, their bank, their supermarket, or their college. Not an actual gun, just metaphorical. A lot of drivers are just desperate to make ends meet however they can. There’s a lot of shit to be said about the gig economy, but it does provide flexible schedules, and while some people just want to monetize as much of their time as possible, some people actually need to.
I stopped ordering from these apps because I got tired of watching the driver take my food on a tour of my city and having it arrive cold and wrong.
The last time I went to pick up my food from a restaurant I saw a dasher standing outside a restaurant staring at his phone with food in his hand, I went inside and while I was waiting the dude came back in, dropped the food and asked for another order because the one he took wasn’t tipping.
Fuck this system and fuck these apps, pick up your own food (if you can).
I stopped using them when I stopped being given free delivery because without the discount, a thing that costs about six bucks suddenly balloons to thirty fucking dollars. On top of it taking longer and my food arriving cold.
are you really ordering a six-dollar item to be delivered and expecting it to be reasonable? maybe that’s the issue here. my orders are usually almost $100 and at that point it becomes pretty reasonable. if you live alone its not for you.
Somehow, places that use in-house delivery don’t have such a problem. Hm… It’s almost as if DoorDash and Uber Eats and the like are bullshit and ripping people off.
Or it’s like very few places have in-house delivery because it’s expensive for them and when they have it its limited. these delivery services are a great option for many people like me. yeah it costs more but when it’s worth it, it’s worth it.
before them, I had maybe 15 choices of where to get delivery from. now I have hundreds.
I had a local burger joint call me up to tell me that the our food was currently, and had been with the driver for the past 30 mins. They knew this because the guy decided to have dinner in the parking lot after picking up our order so I really try to avoid now
I’m starting to wonder if all that are symptoms of a company using information technology to it’s most powerful extent.
Services like Door Dash couldn’t exist at the current scale, speed, and service without the internet and highly capable phones/laptops/whatever in everyone’s home. It enabled this kind of gig economy service to come out of nowhere, build very rapidly, and disrupt the market before the law or even social norms could ever hope to step in. But as a consequence of all that, the owners cannot help themselves, and continue with their “Greed% speed run” of running a company straight to its conclusion. Every mistake, every error, every bad take, it’s all accelerated right alongside the good stuff. It’s like enshittification on amphetamines.
I saw somebody saying how these companies are going to start crashing and burning in the next few years because they’ve never been profitable but the low interest rates have allowed them to keep burning new investors money to fake it until they make it. They’ve been following the greed of infinite profits through infinite growth, but that growth suddenly isn’t infinite anymore, and now they’ll be getting to the find out stage after fucking around for so long.
We should really not be normalizing calling money paid in advance to not have your food arrive late/cold a “tip”. It’s extortion.
Tipping culture in America is fucked beyond belief. Pay everybody a fair wage and let’s get rid of tipping so nobody ever has to deal with this bullshit again.
What I do:
$0 tip
In the special instructions: “Ring doorbell for cash tip. Do not just leave at door”.
Traffic in my area is awful so I always tip $20 no matter the order. Sometimes that comes to almost an 80% tip but a) I know it goes to the driver, b) I don’t have to drive in that shitshow, and c) I reward a driver for actually reading the special instructions.
Is it even convenient at that point? I don’t know if I’d have an extra twenty I can keep tossing out there every time I’m trying to grab a bite.
How convenient should it be?
How much would you pay a friend you see every couple months that is friends with your other friends to go out and buy fast food for you while you sit at home playing videogames instead?
What amount of money would make that feel ok to you?
Assuming it would take more than 2 dollars to feel ok with that, why is it ok to spend less on a stranger doing it? And how much less is ok?
The “that’s somebody’s job, they signed up for that” mentality that prevents so many people from doing what little they can to make that job suck just a little bit less at often times nearly no cost to themselves, like not clearing their trays/garbage at a fast food place, or leaving all their stuff at their seats in a movie theater… it’s such a pervasive mentality, “I don’t -have- to do it, so why should I?”.
Do you want to live in a world where people are nice to you, well too bad, cuz they don’t -have- to be. As long as that mentality persists, we can’t have that world. Doing things you don’t -have- to do to make someone else’s life just a little easier, is the foundation of basic kindness.
Maybe I’m wrong. I think you’re misunderstanding the person you’re replying to, and I didn’t not get from them did they find it inconvenient to pay a stranger more money because it’s a stranger, just saying that they find it to be inconvenient to spend an extra $20 on top of the meal anytime they want delivery and it would probably be better off to go pick it up themselves or make food at home which is what I do. Haven’t ordered delivery in months because it’s such a waste of money.
That person also never said anything about how “that’s somebody’s job and they signed up for it” and that was you that brought that into this mix. I don’t know why you’re getting so offended or pissed off about that comment. They’re just saying that paying an extra $20 for delivery is inconvenient and costly.
If you are a driver and you make money from doordash or Uber, you might want to consider getting into a different line of work because those companies are just scamming the hell out of you and there’s no need to be so defensive of them.
Hmm, maybe I have to change some wording. That is not at all the tone I was going for, I’m not angry or anything like that. And certainly not trying to direct anything at one specific person, or defend any terrible companies doing the things I specifically am saying shouldn’t feel comfortable. I’ll see what I can do to the post to clear things up some.
But I do agree that if you wouldn’t make a friend do something, you shouldn’t feel ok making a stranger do it, do it yourself or don’t do it.
The post is not some line for line rebuttal, it’s more of a loose essay based off a hypothetical posit.
If someone tips a set amount regularly they can easily plan ahead.
Then don’t? They’re not saying everyone needs to shell out $20 for every order…
Did you weigh that $20 against all of the effort that you would need to go get your own damn food? You are paying for convenience! If you want a good deal don’t pay someone else to do your work for you.
No way is driving 5 minutes to pick up food in town worth an hour’s wage to me. And on top of saving me fees and tip money for myself I will get my food faster hotter and fresher and it also won’t smell of cigarettes. I do not order delivery at this point. I only pick up or make food at home. Delivery is a waste of money
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Don’t you have to accept the order before you can read the special instructions?
Yep, and I can also drop the order.
Dashers can see what you tip on the app on average and nobody will pick up your order unless it’s extremely convenient for them. They don’t see the instructions until they pick up the order.
Yep. It is another reason I overtip in cash. If this person is desperate enough to grab a “no tip” order, they probably need the $20 tip on a $36 order more than most.
Oh, that’s a good way to get them to ring the bell. I tried making them ring the bell other ways, but they never do. Uber Eats has a feature where they need to get a code from you to prove they handed you the food. I had several drivers leave the food at the door and then text me, asking me for the code. Fuck off
It’s worth noting that drivers don’t see the note until after they accept the order. There’s a good chance your food takes longer to be picked up because of your $0 tip.
Better to put the tip in the app, give cash, and then adjust the tip back to $0 after the delivery is made. Just communicate that with the driver to avoid confusion.
I used DoorDash today and the add tip screen said that 100% of the tip goes to the driver. I know they got a lot of bad PR for stealing part of the tips some time ago and had to make public statements about improving their policies. Are we saying that even after all that, they’re just outright completely lying?
Before they also said the driver got 100% but behind the scenes they were essentially subtracting that amount from what they were going to pay the driver originally. Thus they could claim the driver got 100% of the tip while still pocketing the value of it.
This is tip culture standard. The company is only required to pay enough such that tips plus pay meet minimum wage. CEO’s should have to work for tips given by their employees in order to earn over minimum wage, change my mind.
no that is the truth, what it doesn’t tell you is that the drivers are paid like 2.50 to 3 bucks per delivery. so tips makes up the majority of their earnings at this point.
I don’t think anyone can outright say that they’re lying with any amount of certainly, but it would be very very far from the first time a company got caught in a scandal then just lied about how they’re going to fix it.
I don’t understand why people want food delivery… It is kinda expensive and I don’t get it unless there is a significant discount.
You don’t… understand? That people want food but don’t want to go out? This really isn’t rocket surgery.
It’s expensive… I could just drive the 2 miles or toss something in the air fryer rather than worry of someone messed with my food
Some people don’t have cars, are elderly, too young to drive, disabled…
Some people have a lot of disposable income and don’t care that their $7 meal at Taco Bell costs $17 to get it delivered, too. I think it’s a bit crazy but it’s their money.
and not one of those groups of people should be eating the shit food that gets delivered by these places.
This is a very bizarre contrarian hill to die on for you. You know that any restaurant can have delivery right? It’s not all Taco Bell lmao.
you realize that ANY restaurant isn’t going to be ‘good’ food right?
For example, I literally have COVID right now so I’m stuck at home. I’m running out of food (I got sick on the day I do my weekly shopping) plus I don’t want to cook or drive because I feel like twenty pounds of shit in a ten pound sack. My wife has work, school, and two stupid dogs to care for, so she’s already stretched, plus I don’t want her to push herself harder in case SHE gets sick too. I usually get our own food but I’m happy to pay someone to deliver right now.
People place different values on time, money, energy, etc. Just because you find it too expensive for the effort, doesn’t mean someone who has more money and less energy would make the same judgement.
Sounds like you’re telling me that everyone doesn’t share my exact thoughts, beliefs, and opinions. That’s crazy, sir/madam.
That kinda talk will get me shot!
In general fast food and restaurant food are overpriced compared to home made food, and the working class often don’t have time between locations during the day. Also, like 40+% of the population in many developed nations are elderly now.
The reason people splurge on greasy junk food covered in sauce is never because it is a reasonable option, but because it’s an option our monkey brains are willing to make the most sacrifices for.
Democracy at risk? Earthquake destroying homes? Drought threatening thousands? Sure we could pitch in $5 for that, or instead we could get the Large meal and an extra Fries…
EDIT: I think my hypothetical was decent and important, but I don’t want anybody to feel ashamed to eat. Enjoying food is necessary for happiness and abstaining from so can be detrimental to mental and physical health.
Is it that hard to understand that some people just value convenience?
People are lazy
I think its handy when I’m sick. Just last week i got delivery because i felt so shitty i could barely get out of bed.
Some people have family and/or work obligations and can’t just fuck off for an hour to get a cheeseburger.
They get 100% of the tip, it’s a legal requirement. The scummy part is the company does this to give you the opportunity NOT to tip, and therefore subsidize the food for shitty people.
Just in case, the few times I have ordered food, I put a dollar or two tip in the app, and add a note saying I’ll give them a cash tip. Usually I’ll give them a 2-4 Dollars more depending. If you’re using these services you need to tip, that’s how they make their livelyhood and feed their families.
It’s a scummy business, and you should definitely try to avoid using it unless it’s your only option for some reason. Your order will probably be at least $30, but do you know how much spaghetti you can make with $30??
It’s worth noting that drivers don’t see the notes until they accept the order.
I used to do the same as you until I dashed for a few months to make ends meet.
I can also tell you that some orders literally cost drivers money to make when the tip is too low. I’ve had countless 25-30 mile round trip orders that paid out $6-7 because the person didn’t tip. I passed on those orders because I would have been paying to deliver them. Drivers need to make about $0.75/mile driven to break even, and most look for $2+\mile. I now look at the distance from the restaurant and tip $2/mile for the one direction. But I’m also in a place where they’re pretty likely to get another order pretty quickly and don’t need to make it a round trip.
The problem really rests with DoorDash and Uber Eats for not paying enough. They recently dropped the base payout to $2/delivery, which will never not cost the driver money. It’s absurd and incredibly shitty how they choose to offload the responsibility of paying their drivers into the customer.
So they pay less now than before?
Yes. The base payout was reduced again last year.
That is a legal requirement. But myself and others got a settlement from Amazon after they stole our tips for years. I got a check for $790 that they kept from me. I dunno if DD ever got caught doing the same, but businesses do try to get away with this stuff.
They used to do that, using the loophole that drivers technically get 100% of the tip because they were subtracting the base pay if the tip covered it. They stopped doing that but now they don’t show the full pay to the driver to discourage ignoring low tip orders, screwing over the good tippers who tipped well for fast service. It doesn’t matter if you tip well anymore because they’re going to bundle your order with low tip orders and force you to wait an hour to get delivery that used to take 20 minutes. It’s why I stopped using door dash.
It’s why I stopped using door dash.
Are they any good alternatives that you would suggest?
Unfortunately pretty much all of the apps are starting to do this, so I’ve just learned to live without.
Can they reduce hourly pay based on tips received, as a loophole?
No
Solution is stop using delivery services.
All the bullshit with tipping on food delivery apps made me stop using them years ago.
First I hear the apps are stealing tips. Then they’re not stealing tips anymore. Then maybe they’re stealing some of the tips.
To try and avoid all that I tried to use cash. The drivers don’t get their base rate reduced and they get the entire, non-reportable cash tip. Then my food started taking twice as long and arriving cold because the drivers thought I was stiffing them.
My theory is the apps do this (pre-tipping) on purpose to discourage cash and after-tipping so they can lower what they pay the driver and they’ll still accept the order because they see the higher after tip amount. So now the apps might not be technically stealing tips, but they’re using up front tips to allow them to reduce their shitty base rate for everyone.
Now if want delivery it’s pizza, Chinese, or one of the few other places with their own drivers. I’ve had this policy for years now and I don’t see myself ever going back unless it’s an emergency.
Bonus to me: all my takeout/delivery is now 20-30% cheaper. Everyone should really take a look at the inflated prices they’re paying and decide if it’s really worth saving a short drive.
They do get the tips.
How much of it?
It’s right the in there screenshot
My take is that it’s 100% not the full truth.
The facts don’t matter, only the narrative. Good for you being open to challenging your own beliefs.
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Idk about door dash, but my son was delivering through Uber and he got all the tips for his deliveries.
As someone who delivered DoorDash this past year, I can confirm that drivers get 100% of the top. I had a bunch of customers ask me to verify and it was always accurate. I’ve also confirmed with a number of delivery drivers that brought me food.
For tipping countries like the US, the driver would only get a “has a tip” notification on the order (if they get any information like that at all!) so they can decide. There is no way the driver can see that there is a $40 order with a $4 tip, or a $40 order with a $16 dollar tip. Orders would be ignored all the time, and the service would fail.
Oh, and if they did get a “has tip” flag for the order, then customers could just game it, by selecting “add tip” and setting it to $0 or $0.10 or something so their order gets that “has tip” flag!!
Here is AU, there is no tipping, so the drivers get paid like normal people. None of this work for tip bullshit that seems to have survived this long in the US, its incredible that it has gotten this far. Now the US get asked for tips using self-service machines, that is the height of lunacy!
I tried Instacart (United States). It tells you exactly what you will get paid before you accept an order. If the tip was more you will see it. Basically if you order Tylenol and 5 other items it will say the Store Name, 6 items, Total payout. (And distance) When you arrive at the store you get a list of the items, and the isle number/shelf if it is available. You scan each item into the app for it to be accepted, if the item is not the same code, it will make you send a message or alternate possibility to the orderer. And they approve/deny.
Long story short. You 100% know what you are getting paid before starting so if 1 order for 6 items says you make 20 dollars, and another says you make 6 dollars. The 20 dollar order will be accepted first.
All this and these motherfuckers still can’t find basic shit in the store? Instacart is the most expensive and least efficient company I have ever used for product delivery.
They fucking suck to work for too. The shoppers probably don’t bother to look very hard because of the insane time limits they expect you to meet, just to have you sit in a parking lot for another hour waiting for orders in a supposed “hot spot” at Kroger that regardless is gonna have you drive across town to a fucking nino salvaggio or something you didn’t even know existed in that location.
That’s probably it. Still, I can’t justify the insane markups when stores have their own services for pickup/delivery now without them. They rarely get things wrong, and with current food prices, that markup is unjustifiable.
Yep, that is absolutely fair. The whole service is a scam on every end, no matter how you interact with them.
Yep, that is absolutely fair. The whole service is a scam on every end, no matter how you interact with them.
The order actually does show how much tip comes with it. The system feeds each dasher based on their acceptance rate of orders…so if you accepted an order with a low tip, your position in the queue would be more likely to get the orders with larger tips than someone who turns down orders with smaller tips all the time. Naimsayin?
This comment seems pretty good, can I get your cash app info so I can tip you for it?
You’re welcome, CashApp havent rolled out to Australia but you can tip me directly via my bitcoin wallet though: 12345X#6514421B
I don’t have Bitcoin 😔
you don’t know what you’re talking about do you. why did you even bother typing all this up if you don’t know shit.
the drivers are paid more or less constant and they can see the total payout and mileage. an order that doesn’t have tip attached will slowly increase in payout until a driver takes it. so those orders tend to be slow.
orders do get ignored all the time and people complain about cold food all the time too.
