I don’t think extraction shooter crowd would consider Helldivers an extraction shooter.
Helldivers is a PvE game while extraction shooter genre is primarily PvEvP. I know games like gray zone zero have PvE servers and even Tarkov has added a PvE mode, but a lot of the purists would say you have to have PvP as well. I personally don’t view it that way but IMO that’s not the only thing preventing Helldivers from being an extraction shooter.
Another aspect that extraction shooters have that Helldivers doesn’t is the loot. Whatever equipment you bring into the match is at risk of being lost forever. If someone kills you and takes your gun, you need a new gun because the previous one is gone. Similarly whatever loot you pick up during the raid is also lost when you die. Helldivers doesn’t work that way. You never lose your gear during missions and while you can lose samples you can’t lose credits or super credits. Overall in Helldivers there’s not really much loot to pick up or lose, which is not really true for the extraction shooters that are still alive.
And finally is the “why go into a raid”. In extraction shooters the player generally sets their own goals, either to complete a quest, collect some loot or just do PvP. In Helldivers the reason for going in is predetermined, you do the mission and then you extract. Your “mission” can’t change mid raid like it can in extraction shooters.
At a high level helldivers can look like an extraction shooter, but as I pointed out there are objective reasons that separate helldivers from extraction shooters.
I appreciate that overview, and I can see what you mean now that you break it all down. I was looking at it very superficially: it’s a shooter and the goal is to extract.
I would imagine some of those stakes that make the genre what it is would make it difficult for it to ever see truly mainstream appeal, too. I know for me while a lot of that stuff sounds cool on paper, it would also drive a player like me away because the stakes are too high and it takes the fun out of it for me if I’m constantly losing everything I worked for. I’d much rather watch someone else play a game like that than play it myself.
That’s not a diss on the genre at all, just my honest reaction to it.
Absolutely. It’s a really difficult genre to create games for because you need to balance PvP and PvE so that one doesn’t overpower the other. Then you need to balance gear progression so the equipment you find is a meaningful upgrade over the starting great, but it can’t be too meaningful so starting gear still has a chance against someone who is kitted out.
There’s no clear “best execution” as each game has its flaws or quirks. I think Escape from Tarkov is currently still the overall best as it has more or less defined the genre, but it’s not without it’s obvious flaws.
The biggest obvious flaw that will kick in the nuts of new players is the wall of game knowledge they need just to survive a raid, and the game explains nothing. The first timer experience is one where you’re thrown into a map and told “at these points you can extract” and then you’re not told where you spawned nor where the extractions are. Good luck figuring out where to go. Oh and if you didn’t take the right healing items with you better enjoy limping around the map. There are a lot of other issues with game as well that I’m not going to get into because I could write a term paper on everything wrong with Tarkov.
As for the future. I have my hopes on Delta Force Hawk Ops. It’s currently in closed playtest so I can’t play it myself but from what I’ve seen on the web it seems to get the Tarkov formula and is making it more accessible to the casual player so my guess it that’s the one to keep an eye out.
There’s also Dark and Darker but I’m not into swords and sorcery so I can’t comment how good that game is.
By that thinking, Deep Rock Galactic would qualify as an “extraction shooter,” but literally nobody that plays DRG or that plays extraction shooters would ever call it that. Its a coop survival shooter. Like Left 4 Dead. And thinking about it, wouldn’t L4D technically be an extraction shooter by the same thinking?
Helldivers 2 is probably the biggest so far, right?
I don’t think extraction shooter crowd would consider Helldivers an extraction shooter.
Helldivers is a PvE game while extraction shooter genre is primarily PvEvP. I know games like gray zone zero have PvE servers and even Tarkov has added a PvE mode, but a lot of the purists would say you have to have PvP as well. I personally don’t view it that way but IMO that’s not the only thing preventing Helldivers from being an extraction shooter.
Another aspect that extraction shooters have that Helldivers doesn’t is the loot. Whatever equipment you bring into the match is at risk of being lost forever. If someone kills you and takes your gun, you need a new gun because the previous one is gone. Similarly whatever loot you pick up during the raid is also lost when you die. Helldivers doesn’t work that way. You never lose your gear during missions and while you can lose samples you can’t lose credits or super credits. Overall in Helldivers there’s not really much loot to pick up or lose, which is not really true for the extraction shooters that are still alive.
And finally is the “why go into a raid”. In extraction shooters the player generally sets their own goals, either to complete a quest, collect some loot or just do PvP. In Helldivers the reason for going in is predetermined, you do the mission and then you extract. Your “mission” can’t change mid raid like it can in extraction shooters.
At a high level helldivers can look like an extraction shooter, but as I pointed out there are objective reasons that separate helldivers from extraction shooters.
I appreciate that overview, and I can see what you mean now that you break it all down. I was looking at it very superficially: it’s a shooter and the goal is to extract.
I would imagine some of those stakes that make the genre what it is would make it difficult for it to ever see truly mainstream appeal, too. I know for me while a lot of that stuff sounds cool on paper, it would also drive a player like me away because the stakes are too high and it takes the fun out of it for me if I’m constantly losing everything I worked for. I’d much rather watch someone else play a game like that than play it myself.
That’s not a diss on the genre at all, just my honest reaction to it.
Absolutely. It’s a really difficult genre to create games for because you need to balance PvP and PvE so that one doesn’t overpower the other. Then you need to balance gear progression so the equipment you find is a meaningful upgrade over the starting great, but it can’t be too meaningful so starting gear still has a chance against someone who is kitted out.
What do you think is the best execution on that formula so far?
There’s no clear “best execution” as each game has its flaws or quirks. I think Escape from Tarkov is currently still the overall best as it has more or less defined the genre, but it’s not without it’s obvious flaws.
The biggest obvious flaw that will kick in the nuts of new players is the wall of game knowledge they need just to survive a raid, and the game explains nothing. The first timer experience is one where you’re thrown into a map and told “at these points you can extract” and then you’re not told where you spawned nor where the extractions are. Good luck figuring out where to go. Oh and if you didn’t take the right healing items with you better enjoy limping around the map. There are a lot of other issues with game as well that I’m not going to get into because I could write a term paper on everything wrong with Tarkov.
As for the future. I have my hopes on Delta Force Hawk Ops. It’s currently in closed playtest so I can’t play it myself but from what I’ve seen on the web it seems to get the Tarkov formula and is making it more accessible to the casual player so my guess it that’s the one to keep an eye out.
There’s also Dark and Darker but I’m not into swords and sorcery so I can’t comment how good that game is.
Interesting, thanks for the rundown.
By that thinking, Deep Rock Galactic would qualify as an “extraction shooter,” but literally nobody that plays DRG or that plays extraction shooters would ever call it that. Its a coop survival shooter. Like Left 4 Dead. And thinking about it, wouldn’t L4D technically be an extraction shooter by the same thinking?