“…including being crucified, eaten by lions in a public show, and being sewn alive inside a bag with various animals and thrown in the river to drown.”
We’ve barely evolved at all. I just heard the President of the US relishing the idea of escapees from his concentration camp being eaten by alligators.
No, you’re the only one here that doesn’t realize that OP is advocating for socialism. This is a meme attacking capitalist realism, not stating that feudalism was better. You’re in the fringe minority with that misinterpretation.
The west is authoritarian in that capitalists have full control, yes, and the PRC is making tremendous strides thanks to socialism.
The greatest measurable increase in life expectancy and quality of life happened in China during the second half of the 20th century, during which it developed from backwater feudalism to centrally planned socialism.
The greatest measurable reduction in life expectancy and quality of life occured in former Soviet countries in the 1990s, where they devolved from centrally planned socialism to internationally financed capitalism.
The rise in life expectancy has fuck all to do with capitalism given that life expectancy in both Cuba and China is higher than the US right now. Meanwhile, slavery continues to be the backbone of western economies.
Not sure what point you’re even trying to make here. Life expectancy has been improving due to science and technology improving.
You could starve to death because your crop had been taken by the lords or die hanged to a tree because you complained
That’s literally how things work today where western corps exploit the workers in the global south. That’s what your lifestyle in the west is built on. Go read up on the coups, death squads, and other atrocities the west regularly commits around the world to keep the system of exploitation going. Here’s a good primer for you https://archive.org/details/KillingHope
Last I checked, the genocide of the native population of America was fuelled by the British capitalism. Notably, capitalism was also the primary driver of African slave trade.
That simply isn’t true. You’ve made some pretty broad claims about the middle aged already and putting them together it’s a pretty easy guess you don’t know jack shit about that time period. Cause so far it seems like you’ve gotten all of your information from pop culture.
so we’re to the point where you’re not even making substantive arguable claims anymore, you’re just expecting people to agree with you because you use reasonable sounding framing
The Middle Ages were a long period with a lot of variety
omg just shut the fuck up you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about
It’s always so crazy how people can get ego trapped in the most pointless internet arguments. Like you aren’t saying anything! Just trying to wiggle your way through this when you could just walk away from the computer and do anything else.
Mao has a great quote about how if you don’t investigate something, you have no right to speak. Basically “shut up you stupid fucker” and statements like this are what it was for.
Yeah, the classical mode of production was worse than what we have today. Slavery was worse than feudalism. Feudalism was worse than capitalism. Objectively speaking, for almost all of humanity, capitalism has brought about massive improvements in many aspects of life compared to previous modes of production[1].
The point isn’t that capitalism is uniquely bad. When it’s not crashing and burning, capitalism is very good at creating wealth. The problem is that liberals today often assume that because capitalism is better than the systems that came before it, it means it is the best possible system, and will never be replaced. We know, due to the contradictions at the foundation of capitalism, that it inevitably will destroy itself.
Mind you, this does depend on when you start counting for much of the colonized world; I’m not counting the period of primitive accumulation under colonialism as capitalism, despite the fact that capitalism couldn’t have come to, say, Latin America, without the Spanish and Portuguese colonial period having accumulated capital in the hands of the future bourgeoisie. A similar point also applies to Asia and Africa ↩︎
It’s sort of a niche history meme that the Inca could have made a kind of socialist state if they had more time. The idea goes back to a book from the 1930s
If each new mode of production is measurably better than the last (otherwise, why even bother making the negative comparison from capitalism to Rome as you did?), why are you acting like it’s meaningless for humanity to surpass capitalism? Do you really think it’s all the same or is it different?
Your nihilistic disregard for the improvements that could be offered by surpassing capitalism, and your detached attitude, seem to suggest that you don’t think very highly of the OOP for criticizing capitalism.
why are people pointing out the material reality of capitalism destroying the planet, don’t they know that is just the nature of things? Only idiots use memes to blame systems of oppression for the suffering of billions.
OP doesn’t say that an older system was better - especially not some super-specific one. Just that it’s NOT the only possible system and likely not the best there can be.
Our current system is also going to consume itself and the entire planet in a couple generations. So sure, QOL for the select few who live in the Imperial core have increased massively. But it’s completely unsustainable.
Given that your account is 6 days old, and you’re just stirring up an argument by being deliberately obtuse and engaging in bad faith, I’m going to assume you’re a ban evasion account and you already know perfectly well that OP is a communist (and so are most of the people replying to you) but you’ve just decided to go about this conversation in the most annoying way possible.
The “not open to debate” part is what gets me. Dude, if you brought me something I hadn’t heard before, I’d have a much more charitable conversation. But as they’re talking right now it’s just an array of thought terminating cliches that I used to hear repeatedly on reddit and when talking with older family members.
I can see you already got told multiple times in these comments. But then again, I think, most can also see you don’t actually know anything you are talking about, OR don’t care to know because you are a right-wing fucknut. So, uh.
The right direction would obviously be socialism with public ownership of the means of production and an economy being directed towards meeting the needs of working majority as opposed to a handful of elites. Should be pretty obvious, yet here you are.
Which was under capitalism. Capitalism was the dominant mode of production in the 1800s. And directly responsible for the increase in diseases because it forced people to move to cities when Enclosure happened and people had to go work in factories.
What’s the problem with my example? Roman Empire qualifies for “recorded history”.
If you weren’t a shit lib jabroni intent on knee jerk defending a system that does literally nothing for you unless you own capital, so smug and self assured and addicted to the smell of your own farts, you’d realize the point of the “recorded history” statement isn’t “the systems used before were better”
the point of the statement is to illustrate how fleeting and ephemeral the supposed “only system that works” is. It has literally only existed for ~300 years, but stupid fuckers like you act like capitalist wage labor and property relations are just common sense “human nature”
Anyway, hope you’re thrown into a pit you dumb fucker
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“…including being crucified, eaten by lions in a public show, and being sewn alive inside a bag with various animals and thrown in the river to drown.”
We’ve barely evolved at all. I just heard the President of the US relishing the idea of escapees from his concentration camp being eaten by alligators.
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OP is advocating for socialism, not for a regression to feudalism.
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Are you deliberately being disingenuous or are you really that stupid?
No, you’re the only one here that doesn’t realize that OP is advocating for socialism. This is a meme attacking capitalist realism, not stating that feudalism was better. You’re in the fringe minority with that misinterpretation.
The west is authoritarian in that capitalists have full control, yes, and the PRC is making tremendous strides thanks to socialism.
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Why would you say it isn’t? The west is made up of dictatorships of capital, workers have little to no power.
How many times are you going to say “bye” before you actually fuck off?
Take the exit for chauvinists, don’t let the trapdoor hit you on the way down
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Mate, you’re the one running away because you can’t deal with people having different beliefs to you
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The greatest measurable increase in life expectancy and quality of life happened in China during the second half of the 20th century, during which it developed from backwater feudalism to centrally planned socialism.
The greatest measurable reduction in life expectancy and quality of life occured in former Soviet countries in the 1990s, where they devolved from centrally planned socialism to internationally financed capitalism.
The rise in life expectancy has fuck all to do with capitalism given that life expectancy in both Cuba and China is higher than the US right now. Meanwhile, slavery continues to be the backbone of western economies.
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Not sure what point you’re even trying to make here. Life expectancy has been improving due to science and technology improving.
That’s literally how things work today where western corps exploit the workers in the global south. That’s what your lifestyle in the west is built on. Go read up on the coups, death squads, and other atrocities the west regularly commits around the world to keep the system of exploitation going. Here’s a good primer for you https://archive.org/details/KillingHope
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Last I checked, the genocide of the native population of America was fuelled by the British capitalism. Notably, capitalism was also the primary driver of African slave trade.
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Wow, how convenient: “it wasn’t a perfect utopia so you’re not allowed to blame capitalism for it”.
A reasoning as perfectly smooth and circular as your brain
“It wasn’t real capitalism!”
Lol
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I’m a huge fan of arguments of the form "Are you saying [absurd nonsense that in no way resembles what they say said]?
That simply isn’t true. You’ve made some pretty broad claims about the middle aged already and putting them together it’s a pretty easy guess you don’t know jack shit about that time period. Cause so far it seems like you’ve gotten all of your information from pop culture.
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so we’re to the point where you’re not even making substantive arguable claims anymore, you’re just expecting people to agree with you because you use reasonable sounding framing
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omg just shut the fuck up you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about
It’s always so crazy how people can get ego trapped in the most pointless internet arguments. Like you aren’t saying anything! Just trying to wiggle your way through this when you could just walk away from the computer and do anything else.
Lmao they reported you with a “So much for a respectful discussion”
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No
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Motte-and-bailey_argument
Also, the nobility & clergy weren’t starving during feudalism, only the peasants during famines.
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Mao has a great quote about how if you don’t investigate something, you have no right to speak. Basically “shut up you stupid fucker” and statements like this are what it was for.
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if “everyone was starving” how did humanity survive you dumb fucker
jason hickel talks a lot about actual medieval living standards if you’d ever like to be less of an ignorant dipshit
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Yeah, the classical mode of production was worse than what we have today. Slavery was worse than feudalism. Feudalism was worse than capitalism. Objectively speaking, for almost all of humanity, capitalism has brought about massive improvements in many aspects of life compared to previous modes of production[1].
The point isn’t that capitalism is uniquely bad. When it’s not crashing and burning, capitalism is very good at creating wealth. The problem is that liberals today often assume that because capitalism is better than the systems that came before it, it means it is the best possible system, and will never be replaced. We know, due to the contradictions at the foundation of capitalism, that it inevitably will destroy itself.
Mind you, this does depend on when you start counting for much of the colonized world; I’m not counting the period of primitive accumulation under colonialism as capitalism, despite the fact that capitalism couldn’t have come to, say, Latin America, without the Spanish and Portuguese colonial period having accumulated capital in the hands of the future bourgeoisie. A similar point also applies to Asia and Africa ↩︎
Oh come on we all KNOW that the Inca would have created industrial socialism by like 1750 if it wasn’t for the damn Spanish
I mean, the Incan mita system was kind of a centralized public works socialism before the Spanish arrived. Maybe that’s what you were getting at
It’s sort of a niche history meme that the Inca could have made a kind of socialist state if they had more time. The idea goes back to a book from the 1930s
My Civ VI games have those foos landing on Mars in the 19th century.
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Who are you, Schopenhauer?
If each new mode of production is measurably better than the last (otherwise, why even bother making the negative comparison from capitalism to Rome as you did?), why are you acting like it’s meaningless for humanity to surpass capitalism? Do you really think it’s all the same or is it different?
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Your nihilistic disregard for the improvements that could be offered by surpassing capitalism, and your detached attitude, seem to suggest that you don’t think very highly of the OOP for criticizing capitalism.
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What specifically is wrong with how the idea was expressed?
i hope you’re thrown head first into a pit
Capitalism hasn’t done shit for you you brainwashed piece of shit
It made iPhone
Hey, that’s not fair, their boss probably pays them a wage that makes the reproduction of their labor possible.
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OP doesn’t say that an older system was better - especially not some super-specific one. Just that it’s NOT the only possible system and likely not the best there can be.
So I’m not sure who exactly you’re arguing with.
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Socialism obviously
Our current system is also going to consume itself and the entire planet in a couple generations. So sure, QOL for the select few who live in the Imperial core have increased massively. But it’s completely unsustainable.
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Given that your account is 6 days old, and you’re just stirring up an argument by being deliberately obtuse and engaging in bad faith, I’m going to assume you’re a ban evasion account and you already know perfectly well that OP is a communist (and so are most of the people replying to you) but you’ve just decided to go about this conversation in the most annoying way possible.
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The “not open to debate” part is what gets me. Dude, if you brought me something I hadn’t heard before, I’d have a much more charitable conversation. But as they’re talking right now it’s just an array of thought terminating cliches that I used to hear repeatedly on reddit and when talking with older family members.
Correlation != Causation
As others have pointed out we have better lives today because of scientific and technological progress not because of capitalism.
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You’re right, USSR managed to accomplish an equivalent of a century of progress under capitalism in the west in a couple of decades.
first-class example of whataboutism, favourite of useful idiots worlwide!
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i’m pretty sure the idea with anticapitalist sentiment isn’t to go backwards anymore, you know?
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I can see you already got told multiple times in these comments. But then again, I think, most can also see you don’t actually know anything you are talking about, OR don’t care to know because you are a right-wing fucknut. So, uh.
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Nope, that’s exactly what I implied when I point out that capitalism is the wrong direction of human development.
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The right direction would obviously be socialism with public ownership of the means of production and an economy being directed towards meeting the needs of working majority as opposed to a handful of elites. Should be pretty obvious, yet here you are.
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You’re just fucking illiterate
Which was under capitalism. Capitalism was the dominant mode of production in the 1800s. And directly responsible for the increase in diseases because it forced people to move to cities when Enclosure happened and people had to go work in factories.
If you weren’t a shit lib jabroni intent on knee jerk defending a system that does literally nothing for you unless you own capital, so smug and self assured and addicted to the smell of your own farts, you’d realize the point of the “recorded history” statement isn’t “the systems used before were better”
the point of the statement is to illustrate how fleeting and ephemeral the supposed “only system that works” is. It has literally only existed for ~300 years, but stupid fuckers like you act like capitalist wage labor and property relations are just common sense “human nature”
Anyway, hope you’re thrown into a pit you dumb fucker
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I fail to see what any of this has to do with an economic system. These are scientific or legal topics.
And indeed, slavery is present under unchecked capitalism as well.
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