I did and I still dont think any of these nations truly care about people. Not the US Empire, not the DPRK, not the Russian Empire, not anything. If these places were more interested in peace and welfare like they claim we would never be in this situation in the first place. Why would the DPRK not invite reporters in if it cared about the truth and was itself just? It would, as it would be in its own best interest. But it doesn’t, because nations are more interested in power and control than truth and welfare.
The DPRK does let in reporters, though. They don’t let in people willy-nilly, as they’ve been victims of genocide at the hands of the west, and frequently sabotage has happened under the guide of more benign groups. There are many documentaries about life in the DPRK these days such as My Brothers and Sisters in the North.
Most travelers are from Russia, China, and Cuba. Visits from Statesians are rare, because the US Empire makes it illegal to do so.
This is like a westoid sharing a YouTube video or something and expecting you to take it seriously. I cannot confirm or deny anything in that with earnest. It doesnt matter how much the .ml brigade satisfies your updoot and downdoot ratio. The DPRK is not open to free journalism and this singular tankie.tube video is not evidence of that. I’ll go watch this film on a separate platform before I make my judgments on it.
Edit: So far all I am seeing is SK and NK are both extremely controlling. She lost her SK citizenship filming this. Also, while the people of NK so far in this film seem happy. They are cut off from the net, like Lemmy and seem to not have the same amount of choice. So far my viewpoint that all states are bad is just reinforced here.
Edit 2: the social cohesion seems to be a nice way of saying there is a tight control of the flow of information into the country, restricting its people’s from developing differing viewpoints and opinions. Not entirely a good look. But its not like the capitalists to the south are better.
It’s a documentary, though, and not the only one. That’s like saying a Marvel movie is a “piratebay video,” the platform is just how I am getting it to you. I also don’t know what you mean by the “.ml brigade,” we are on Lemmy.ml, and people here are agreeing with me more than you. It’s not a coordinated thing.
The DPRK has public news outlets, and there’s reporting from the outside. It doesn’t have private news outlets, yes, but independent orgs do visit.
Leftist opinions are pretty common on Lemmy.ml, Hexbear, Lemmygrad, and other instances. I guess if you are on a .world account it might seem different. I see leftists dogpiled in Lemmy.world threads too, I chalk that up to instances being different ideologically, not any particular tendency towards “dogpiling.”
Secondly, it isn’t black and white. Reporting is thoroughly vetted. I never said it was “open,” just that accurate reporting exists internally and externally, and independent orgs do visit and report on them. They are extremely careful overall.
Its whatever dude I know you all dont like anarchists. You just bend over backwards to try and say the DPRK is fair but nothing I can even dredge up on the Dark web says that. Everything points to them having an iron grip on the flow of information in the country to influence its entire population into “social cohesion” because thats the only way to realistically do that. You can hate that all you want but thats the truth. People with more access to more information form many different opinions. People with less, well, form less. I just can’t be convinced that thats actually good.
I like anarchists, I get along with a good amount of them. I used to be one, in fact. I disagree with them, some of them moreso than others, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like them. I’m not bending over backwards for anything, nor am I trying to say the DPRK is some magic utopia. I am saying that information is limited, but absolutely does exist. You’re just affirming it to be some dystopian nightmare out of a cartoon, rather than a real country with real people.
I gave you a documentary, and you said you didn’t trust it because I gave you a pirated version. You have to realize that that’s silly, right? Multiple sources from multiple languages affirm that the DPRK is not the hellscape you think it is, especially if you read Korean, Mandarin, Russian, or Spanish. If you only want English, the Korean ex-pat anti-imperialist group Nodutdol released a good toolkit on learning more about Korea, both the DPRK and ROK, and more, so you can see more about what the situation actually is like.
I definitely edited that comment and said I would find the film. You ignoring my additions is not something I can do anything about. I mentioned how SK was fucked. I watched the documentary, that still did not prove that independent journalism is allowed mor that they allow the free press in. Which if you recall, was my original statement before you made it about your points. Its not silly. One person is not independent journalism being let into the country. Its simply allowing one vetted person to make a film approved by you.
All other sources I can locate say information on the inner workings of the DPRK are unreliable as they only allow the singular state source to report. Literally everything says that but you and your singular documentary. Is everything else wrong? Its hard to say but I doubt it.
The situation looks exactly as it is. The people are fine, they are just massively restricted in what information they are allowed to consume. I never said it was a hellscape, you put those words in my mouth. I said they do not allow the free press in, and if they wanted to dispell rumours and portray truth they would allow the free press in. But they don’t, because they want to control what information their civilians consume. Thats what I am saying. I am not saying they are starving and demons run amuck. I am saying the citizens have extremely restricted access to information from outside their country and that is how you achieve this “social cohesion”. Please, I implore you to not project onto me and actually read my words. You never seem to do that because you are so eager to show how your perspective is the right one, when it is merely just another flawed perspective like line because we both dont live there.
You’d rather western press where they can publish any lie and denial of reality that suits capital interests? There are certain lies propagated by the west for the purpose of destabilizing the DPRK, which I don’t believe the DPRK is obligated to let float around in order for me to respect their democratic sovereignty.
You just won’t convince me that it’s a bad thing to enforce a shared observable reality which can be questioned and improved upon but not invented out of whole cloth to serve imperialist interests. The people don’t need to be told what their interests are; they’re the ones living their daily lives to observe that, and should be the ones doing the telling. Anything reported to them should be a plain factual recounting of events.
A democracy based on lies and manipulation is no democracy at all, which ironically happens to be what we have here in the west. For as “free” as our media purports to be, good luck getting any reach without a capitalist backing you in some form (especially before social media but even today; now that they’ve captured a large enough audience; the capitalists behind big tech are tightening up on what is allowed to have a platform). Which explains why you always see westerners project that onto any country they consider worse off and “authoritarian”, as if that is the sole reason why and actually “the free press” makes us immune to it.
Controled information will never say anything bad about the one controlling it. You don’t see that situation in the west. I could link a hundred articles with differing views on any situation. I agree that corpos are tightening the grip on info, and I oppose that at every turn. However, it makes no sense that you can condem the western world for controlling media while praising the DPRK for doing the exact same thing. “You just won’t convince me that it’s a bad thing to enforce a shared observable reality” and immediately after you flop when talking about the west. Press should be free period, and the audience should hold them to a higher standard than they do.
Press should be free period, and the audience should hold them to a higher standard than they do
These are mutually exclusive demands. You cannot have a “free press” that is also “held to a higher standard”. Either they’re free to report what they want and be influenced by outside interests, or they’re held to a standard of fact-based and unbiased reporting. The two are almost never going to coincide, especially in a system driven by capital. Whether you want to face that reality or not is your prerogative.
This isn’t actually true. The vast majority of the press, something like 90%, is controlled by mainstream, mass media. These corporations are owned by a tiny few, and recieve funding from the state for the purposes of propagandizing. The last 10% doesn’t control the narrative, because what’s true doesn’t necessarily overpower what’s commonly reported.
Prolewiki is a Marxist-Leninist wikipedia, you can check the sources directly if you want. My point is that, again, media isn’t popular by merit but by exposure, as private media cares only about its own profits.
What on the prolewiki link is wrong? It is biased, just like wikipedia is, but that doesn’t mean the information is wrong, either.
You know I read some more articles on there and it really is biased but so are more mainstream sources. I would like to see more sources cited (some srticles are better than others) like here there are a lot of claims with no source to back them up (even if some of the claims are true). The whole website appears more like an opinion piece than a source of reliable information
Do you distrust NASA to the same degree? Public press is going to be biased, but is often factual to similar or better degrees than private press, which is biased towards capital. And, again, there are people that visit from other countries that report on it.
I did and I still dont think any of these nations truly care about people. Not the US Empire, not the DPRK, not the Russian Empire, not anything. If these places were more interested in peace and welfare like they claim we would never be in this situation in the first place. Why would the DPRK not invite reporters in if it cared about the truth and was itself just? It would, as it would be in its own best interest. But it doesn’t, because nations are more interested in power and control than truth and welfare.
The DPRK does let in reporters, though. They don’t let in people willy-nilly, as they’ve been victims of genocide at the hands of the west, and frequently sabotage has happened under the guide of more benign groups. There are many documentaries about life in the DPRK these days such as My Brothers and Sisters in the North.
Most travelers are from Russia, China, and Cuba. Visits from Statesians are rare, because the US Empire makes it illegal to do so.
This is like a westoid sharing a YouTube video or something and expecting you to take it seriously. I cannot confirm or deny anything in that with earnest. It doesnt matter how much the .ml brigade satisfies your updoot and downdoot ratio. The DPRK is not open to free journalism and this singular tankie.tube video is not evidence of that. I’ll go watch this film on a separate platform before I make my judgments on it.
Edit: So far all I am seeing is SK and NK are both extremely controlling. She lost her SK citizenship filming this. Also, while the people of NK so far in this film seem happy. They are cut off from the net, like Lemmy and seem to not have the same amount of choice. So far my viewpoint that all states are bad is just reinforced here.
Edit 2: the social cohesion seems to be a nice way of saying there is a tight control of the flow of information into the country, restricting its people’s from developing differing viewpoints and opinions. Not entirely a good look. But its not like the capitalists to the south are better.
It’s a documentary, though, and not the only one. That’s like saying a Marvel movie is a “piratebay video,” the platform is just how I am getting it to you. I also don’t know what you mean by the “.ml brigade,” we are on Lemmy.ml, and people here are agreeing with me more than you. It’s not a coordinated thing.
The DPRK has public news outlets, and there’s reporting from the outside. It doesn’t have private news outlets, yes, but independent orgs do visit.
This only happens on ml comms so you can say what you want but ya’ll are king dogpilers.
https://rsf.org/en/country/north-korea
It really doesn’t appear to be open
Leftist opinions are pretty common on Lemmy.ml, Hexbear, Lemmygrad, and other instances. I guess if you are on a .world account it might seem different. I see leftists dogpiled in Lemmy.world threads too, I chalk that up to instances being different ideologically, not any particular tendency towards “dogpiling.”
Secondly, it isn’t black and white. Reporting is thoroughly vetted. I never said it was “open,” just that accurate reporting exists internally and externally, and independent orgs do visit and report on them. They are extremely careful overall.
Its whatever dude I know you all dont like anarchists. You just bend over backwards to try and say the DPRK is fair but nothing I can even dredge up on the Dark web says that. Everything points to them having an iron grip on the flow of information in the country to influence its entire population into “social cohesion” because thats the only way to realistically do that. You can hate that all you want but thats the truth. People with more access to more information form many different opinions. People with less, well, form less. I just can’t be convinced that thats actually good.
I like anarchists, I get along with a good amount of them. I used to be one, in fact. I disagree with them, some of them moreso than others, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like them. I’m not bending over backwards for anything, nor am I trying to say the DPRK is some magic utopia. I am saying that information is limited, but absolutely does exist. You’re just affirming it to be some dystopian nightmare out of a cartoon, rather than a real country with real people.
I gave you a documentary, and you said you didn’t trust it because I gave you a pirated version. You have to realize that that’s silly, right? Multiple sources from multiple languages affirm that the DPRK is not the hellscape you think it is, especially if you read Korean, Mandarin, Russian, or Spanish. If you only want English, the Korean ex-pat anti-imperialist group Nodutdol released a good toolkit on learning more about Korea, both the DPRK and ROK, and more, so you can see more about what the situation actually is like.
I definitely edited that comment and said I would find the film. You ignoring my additions is not something I can do anything about. I mentioned how SK was fucked. I watched the documentary, that still did not prove that independent journalism is allowed mor that they allow the free press in. Which if you recall, was my original statement before you made it about your points. Its not silly. One person is not independent journalism being let into the country. Its simply allowing one vetted person to make a film approved by you.
All other sources I can locate say information on the inner workings of the DPRK are unreliable as they only allow the singular state source to report. Literally everything says that but you and your singular documentary. Is everything else wrong? Its hard to say but I doubt it.
The situation looks exactly as it is. The people are fine, they are just massively restricted in what information they are allowed to consume. I never said it was a hellscape, you put those words in my mouth. I said they do not allow the free press in, and if they wanted to dispell rumours and portray truth they would allow the free press in. But they don’t, because they want to control what information their civilians consume. Thats what I am saying. I am not saying they are starving and demons run amuck. I am saying the citizens have extremely restricted access to information from outside their country and that is how you achieve this “social cohesion”. Please, I implore you to not project onto me and actually read my words. You never seem to do that because you are so eager to show how your perspective is the right one, when it is merely just another flawed perspective like line because we both dont live there.
But if they don’t allow free press then how can you trust anything those reporters say? Everything has to be reviewed and approved by big brother.
You’d rather western press where they can publish any lie and denial of reality that suits capital interests? There are certain lies propagated by the west for the purpose of destabilizing the DPRK, which I don’t believe the DPRK is obligated to let float around in order for me to respect their democratic sovereignty.
You just won’t convince me that it’s a bad thing to enforce a shared observable reality which can be questioned and improved upon but not invented out of whole cloth to serve imperialist interests. The people don’t need to be told what their interests are; they’re the ones living their daily lives to observe that, and should be the ones doing the telling. Anything reported to them should be a plain factual recounting of events.
A democracy based on lies and manipulation is no democracy at all, which ironically happens to be what we have here in the west. For as “free” as our media purports to be, good luck getting any reach without a capitalist backing you in some form (especially before social media but even today; now that they’ve captured a large enough audience; the capitalists behind big tech are tightening up on what is allowed to have a platform). Which explains why you always see westerners project that onto any country they consider worse off and “authoritarian”, as if that is the sole reason why and actually “the free press” makes us immune to it.
Controled information will never say anything bad about the one controlling it. You don’t see that situation in the west. I could link a hundred articles with differing views on any situation. I agree that corpos are tightening the grip on info, and I oppose that at every turn. However, it makes no sense that you can condem the western world for controlling media while praising the DPRK for doing the exact same thing. “You just won’t convince me that it’s a bad thing to enforce a shared observable reality” and immediately after you flop when talking about the west. Press should be free period, and the audience should hold them to a higher standard than they do.
Where did that happen??
These are mutually exclusive demands. You cannot have a “free press” that is also “held to a higher standard”. Either they’re free to report what they want and be influenced by outside interests, or they’re held to a standard of fact-based and unbiased reporting. The two are almost never going to coincide, especially in a system driven by capital. Whether you want to face that reality or not is your prerogative.
This isn’t actually true. The vast majority of the press, something like 90%, is controlled by mainstream, mass media. These corporations are owned by a tiny few, and recieve funding from the state for the purposes of propagandizing. The last 10% doesn’t control the narrative, because what’s true doesn’t necessarily overpower what’s commonly reported.
The fact that I can link you the prolewiki article on the DPRK as well as the wikipedia article on North Korea and both will agree in some areas and disagree in others doesn’t mean people compare by merit, but by exposure.
Never heard of prolewiki but this is all I needed to read to know that it’s total bullshit. Also where are you getting that 90% figure from?
Prolewiki is a Marxist-Leninist wikipedia, you can check the sources directly if you want. My point is that, again, media isn’t popular by merit but by exposure, as private media cares only about its own profits.
What on the prolewiki link is wrong? It is biased, just like wikipedia is, but that doesn’t mean the information is wrong, either.
You know I read some more articles on there and it really is biased but so are more mainstream sources. I would like to see more sources cited (some srticles are better than others) like here there are a lot of claims with no source to back them up (even if some of the claims are true). The whole website appears more like an opinion piece than a source of reliable information
Do you distrust NASA to the same degree? Public press is going to be biased, but is often factual to similar or better degrees than private press, which is biased towards capital. And, again, there are people that visit from other countries that report on it.